Weird PIR wiring

[catdog1121]

Does this sound like a normal way of wiring a PIR.

So had to change a PIR for a pullcord today and this caught me out. Just wonder what others thoughts are.

I could not get to any of the wiring above at all. I had two Twin and earth cables coming to PIR.

1st cable was power in no problem.
2nd cable, the line and cpc buzzed out to the first downlight (took all downlights apart to make sure I could work out where the cables were going but they were all just normal daisy chained together). However Neutral there was nothing to the downlight. You could pull the cable so so was clearly the same cable but could have had a junction box connected to it that was moving with the cable.

When you turn power on the cables at the PIR, the 1st cable was normal as expected, 2nd cable was 230v on the neutral conductor.

I ended up just having to wago up the second cable at the PIR and light and run a new cable wiring a light switch like you would normally with power going to the switch.

There did not appear to be another switch anywhere and the client didnt know of any other switch, thats the only thing I can think of that there was another source of power to a switch which was providing Neutral to the first light and then the permanent live to the PIR switch via the neutral then the SL going to the light from the other side of the PIR switch. I guess you could then turn the lights off of using the switch (although power would still be at PIR), it obviously was not an overide to turn on as there was 230v on the neutral so the lights would have been on all the time.

Apparently the previous owner was a "Sparky" and had offered to change the PIR for a pullcord as it was an easy job so client maybe thought it was me. Ended up there basically all day and after parts etc probably made about a tenner for a days work as kept to my quote.

I am guessing its been messed around with and maybe the switch was changed to a junction box somewhere as was decided was not needed as could not see any other switch for the life of me anywhere.

Am I missing something or does that wiring sound really strange? Sorry just bit miffed for working all day for bugger all (I need to get harder but the client was a skinflint and its a small town where reputation is everything).

 

[Dartlec]

Sounds like a bugger. We've all had jobs like that.

Apparently the previous owner was a "Sparky"

I think you may have found your problem

Does sound possible there is or was planned to be a switch somewhere to override the PIR - with no sleeving or identification on the wiring of course...

Maybe he ran the first wire from a switch, then realised he needed neutral at the PIR and ran another feed to it and then terminated the first cable somehow (Hopefully not by plastering over it in the wall....)

Was this in a bathroom? Could there also be a be a fan in the wiring or similar? doesn't sound like rodent damage, but did you IR the cables just in case?

I hate jobs where you can just feel there is a junction box somewhere but can't get at it or prove it. A couple of times my cheap Aldi inspection camera has paid for itself.

 

[catdog1121]

Sounds like a bugger. We've all had jobs like that.



I think you may have found your problem

Does sound possible there is or was planned to be a switch somewhere to override the PIR - with no sleeving or identification on the wiring of course...

Maybe he ran the first wire from a switch, then realised he needed neutral at the PIR and ran another feed to it and then terminated the first cable somehow (Hopefully not by plastering over it in the wall....)

Was this in a bathroom? Could there also be a be a fan in the wiring or similar? doesn't sound like rodent damage, but did you IR the cables just in case?

I hate jobs where you can just feel there is a junction box somewhere but can't get at it or prove it. A couple of times my cheap Aldi inspection camera has paid for itself.

Yeah it was in a bathroom. I was pretty sure it was not rodent damage as I could pull the cable about so I knew it was going from PIR to that light and evern with moving the cable a lot nothing changed, so with everything disconnected, there was no power on the line so would have had to have come from another cable, obviously moving the cable you would think would have changed this. Maybe I should have IR the cables but like you, I really dont think it was rodents. Also the lights still worked so even though there was no continuity on the neutral the lights were obviously getting a good neutral from somewhere to work.

It was in a really old cottage where at the top there was about a foot of room between ceiling and roof and it was totally jammed with insulation, I was struggling just to get a new cable a couple of foot so a camera would not have been useful. There was definitely no extractor fan, it was one of the things I thought about.

Well at least im a bit reassured that its not just me being stupid. Why do we allow anyone to call themselves an electrician in the country and work on electrics. Amount of DIY bodgery I have seen lately is crazy and clients always say it must have been previous owner or something and try to distance themselves and dont want to pay for the extra time to put it right (Sorry rant over, one of those days, thanks for replying though).