What are the basic set of courses/memberships I need for...

[lunatiqfrinj]

Hi all

I'm currently in a situation where over the next few years I will be selfbuilding around 5 houses for various family members. As such, it may make financial sense for me to acquire the relevant knowledge to install and initial test the electrics myself in a safe, compliant and competent manner. I'd like to do so under a self certification scheme because my building inspector of choice isn't interested in arranging to have my work tested by a third party; he just wants an EIC from the installing electrician. I've no plans to work on existing installations, or sell my skills to other people; this is purely an interest in wiring up selfbuilds that I'm building myself.

I'm confident I have the tool and diagnostic skills necessary already; I'm a software engineer by trade and build houses as a hobby. I'm meticulous when following a specification and have a great attention to detail so I dare say that the practical aspect is within the grasp of the skills I currently have, it's just the necessary knowledge for justifying the circuit design and installation that I feel I need. I don't wish for this thread to be an insult to time served electricians who do expert, neat and professional work and have poured many years into their craft - it's purely me setting myself the challenge to become qualified enough to start with a field and finish with a house, doing the whole thing legally, safely and solo. I'd like to know the minimum set of qualifications and competencies necessary to sign off my own work

Is it something that genuinely requires years of training and a long history of past jobs that an NIC assessor can look at, or would an install that was faultlessly compliant with BS7671 be enough for membership and allow me to purchase the necessary PI insurance to sign off?

 

[Des 56]

With your proposal,you may be a very unlucky fellow and have just missed that very easy boat

Over the last 8 years or so,there was a rush for numbers of members by the likes of the Niceic
In order to aquire those numbers they absolutely destroyed the skill level of the trade by creating a level called "Domestic installer"whereby they accepted the very minimum of qualification
In fact no electrical knowledge whatsoever,just an open book 30 mins regulations exam,then a small job in Grannies hallway

In the last year or 2 the gov became extra concerned,the trade has become awash with all sorts getting stuck in and with minimal effort,a sort of add on for other trades,the Gov made them tighten their entry level (although its still company based rather than the individual)

These days the company(or sole trader) qualifying supervisor needs one of those modern NVQ quals to apply along with the same very basic on site assessment
These NVQs are class and site based I believe. so it may become a pain in the neck to get through.I am not too sure

Can you not team up with a local spark who may be happy to let you do most of the work,he can have a look and test and certify the installation for you,its a 3rd party inspection/notification system that they are now permitting

 

[Maddison]

Get an electrician in who can sign off the work amd is registered etc.. youd never live it down if one of your family members were injured or worse because you wanted to save a few quid.

 

[Plonker 3]

Get an electrician in who can sign off the work amd is registered etc.. youd never live it down if one of your family members were injured or worse because you wanted to save a few quid.

Here you go,you can borrow mine..

 

[7029 dave]

Just an bit of advice, pay the money for your electrical installation.

 

[midgetman]

You can certify via building control. They send someone out first fix and at second fix. They test it and give you a completion cert. Cost depends but about £250 per house.

 

[snowhead]

You can certify via building control. They send someone out first fix and at second fix. They test it and give you a completion cert. Cost depends but about £250 per house.

It looks like he's using a (Private) Approved Inspector Building control, who isn't interested in arranging Electrical inspections.

 

[lunatiqfrinj]

Just an bit of advice, pay the money for your electrical installation.

Thanks for the input; what makes you so sure that I'm incapable of acquiring the necessary knowledge myself?

 

[lunatiqfrinj]

You can certify via building control. They send someone out first fix and at second fix.

It looks like he's using a (Private) Approved Inspector Building control, who isn't interested in arranging Electrical inspections.

tis true that my BI has said he doesn't want to arrange it but perhaps I can ask the local authority if they want to do that bit (it's easy cash for them) or ask them which local contractor they would engage in their behalf and see if that contractor wants to accept a fee for doing the design and overseeing the install (if it's a core part of their business, they might not be so professionally insulted by my request..)

Am i right in thinking that this route would see an EICR being issued rather than an EIC?

 

[Engineer54]

This and a couple of other recent threads based on the same sort of enquiry just goes to show how low the the title of Electrician has actually fallen over recent years. Any Tom Dick and Harry think they can become competent in a little more than couple weeks on completing a buckshee electrical course at an equally buckshee training centre. For gods sake wake up and see the wood for the tree's, your industry is being systematically destroyed before your very own eyes!!!

 

[Marvo]

Please keep comments about the state of the industry in one of the many threads about this subject that are already running.

 

[lunatiqfrinj]

This and a couple of other recent threads based on the same sort of enquiry just goes to show how low the the title of Electrician has actually fallen over recent years. Any Tom Dick and Harry think they can become competent in a little more than couple weeks on completing a buckshee electrical course at an equally buckshee training centre. For gods sake wake up and see the wood for the tree's, your industry is being systematically destroyed before your very own eyes!!!

Competence has nothing to do with qualifications. I've worked alongside people who have university degrees and I wouldn't trust them to plug in a toaster. I've been to barbecues hosted by PhD graduates with more letters after their name than I have in mine, and watched them fail at the very basic task of effectively preparing a pile of burning wood in order to cook on.

We all do things every day that could injure or kill ourselves or another, and routinely we do these things without achieving the highest level of possible qualification in it first. Of the 45.5 million drivers in the UK, just 100,000 are members of the IAM (passed an advanced test)..

Is it really too much to ask to have a nice, helpful response something along the lines of "for the limited capacity in which you'd like to install electrical systems, you should consider doing C&G 23xx, 23yy and 23zz and then apply for some scheme and do their test XYZ123" or "if you plan to have a third party inspect and test your work, you really should have a pass in C&G blahblah because then you stand the best chance of knowing what and why you do what you do, and your tester will find you easier to work with" ?

I'm not planning on destroying anyone's industry, or taking complex jobs off competent electricians.. You can have the rewires and the marina wires and the heathrow extensions. I'd just like to know how to work safely and sensibly on my own domestic systems and not have to be on site to watch that any hired-in spark turns up with a 16 year old apprentice who barely knows one end of a cordless from the other but is happy to ruin a passivhaus structure by drilling an excessive number of holes where he shouldnt. I understand the aversion, but I'm not trying to insult anyone by claiming I'll be a better spark in 5 weeks than they will in 10 years. All I want to know is the most expedient route to become a safe and knowledgeable installer

 

[Plonker 3]

There is no such thing as "basic electrician" " domestic installer" etc your either a electrician or you are not.

To be classed as a electrician you need C&G 2365, AM2 and the NVQ level 3 and should take about 5 years to become a electrician.

 

[davesparks]

tis true that my BI has said he doesn't want to arrange it but perhaps I can ask the local authority if they want to do that bit (it's easy cash for them) or ask them which local contractor they would engage in their behalf and see if that contractor wants to accept a fee for doing the design and overseeing the install (if it's a core part of their business, they might not be so professionally insulted by my request..)

Am i right in thinking that this route would see an EICR being issued rather than an EIC?

An EICR is not allowed to be used to certify a new installation.

 

[Maddison]

Here you go,you can borrow mine..View attachment 28657

I ment to install and commission the work. Not for him to install and a 3rd party to sign off. I would never condone that. Keep your tin hat.