what are these components?

[mike-gr]

Hello everyone!
I want to ask the old guys in here if they know what are these components on the photos no 2 & 3?
These things are part of the electrical system of an old hydraulic "clicker" press. It's used to cut leather,paper etc. The machine is probably from the 70's and there is no tag on it so i don't know any infos!
It's working ok but i am thinking to either change the 3 phase electric motor with a new single phase motor or make this one single phase! My problems are these 2 components! I don't know how they will be affected from this change! The machine have 2 handles with one button each. To make the head move downwards you must press both buttons (i guess as a security measure so that you always have both hands safe). The buttons are connected with this component. I know there is a big electromagnet in the head (next to the buttons) that moves a lever that actuates the downwards move of the head.
I already asked the company but they don't have any pdf for this machine anymore!

 

[pc1966]

The 2nd one looks like a transformer to me, but it could be a choke (inductor for smoothing DC supplies) if it only has two wires.

The 3nd one (red finned thing) is probable a rectifier, and probable a selenium one. In the days before reliable germanium or silicon diodes for low voltage (AVO meter, etc) you would see copper oxide ones, for higher voltage selenium. The selenium ones smell awful if they overheat!

Hard to tell from just the photos.

 

[westward10]

The second picture is a bridge rectifier used to convert ac to dc the other is a transformer.

 

[mike-gr]

I guess they don't require 3phase current!

 

[pc1966]

No, they would be fed of one of the phases is my guess. You would really need to try and draw out the schematic before touching anything so you have a better feel for what is in there.

And lots of photos! Always handy to look back if you discover something is wrong.

 

[westward10]

Hard to say and assuming that is an isolating transformer it may have a 400v primary, does the existing supply to it incorporate a neutral conductor.

 

[mike-gr]

I'll take a few more photos and i will be back!

 

[DPG]

Haven't seen a selenium rectifier for a while. Lovely. Just needs a mains dropper resistor as well (barreter?)

 

[mike-gr]

ok! Here we are again! I will try to describe as best as i can!
The white cable (number 1 & 2) comes directly from the switch.
The next 4 cables (3,4,5,6) goes directly to the buttons on the head of the machine, the electromagnet i mentioned before.
The number 7 & 8 goes to the silver thing (transformer i think) in the picture "atom press2.jpg"
From this little silver thing then comes 2 cables the No 12 & 16.
The cables No 13 , 14 , 15 are connected to the red finned thing.
The black round thing on the top right of the picture was probably a fuse but now in not connected with anything. To better understand the pictures "atom press2.jpg" and "atom press3.jpg" it's the same part of the machine, one from inside (atom press2.jpg) and from outside (atom press3.jpg)

 

[westward10]

That black thing is not a fuse it is a voltage selector.

 

[mike-gr]

That black thing is not a fuse it is a voltage selector.

Anyway it's not connected with something!

 

[westward10]

Anyway it's not connected with something!

The connections will be below it, not clear of it's purpose.

 

[DPG]

Anyway it's not connected with something!

Maybe it's been bypassed at some point.

 

[mike-gr]

Maybe it's been bypassed at some point.

i think so!

 

[snowhead]

You can see the back of the voltage selector above the transformer, Atom press 2, picture.
Nothing connected, was probably for the original transformer now replaced with the silver one.

 

[freddo]

Any manufacturers information is probably only going to be of limited help as most of the components shown appear to have be (sloppily) installed at some point in the past and it is likely none of them are original.

As you have already worked out the circuit appears to be:
Power from the mains switch feeds the silver transformer primary, the transformer secondary is switched by the pair of operators buttons which sends extra low voltage AC to the red bridge rectifier, the DC output from the rectifier operates the solenoid actuator to trigger the press to operate.

The voltage selector was probably for selecting the input voltage to a previously removed transformer with multiple primary voltage tappings. The selector knob might also house a small fuse.

 

[mike-gr]

You can see the back of the voltage selector above the transformer, Atom press 2, picture.
Nothing connected, was probably for the original transformer now replaced with the silver one.

That's right!
Now my question? If i change the input current (cable 1&2) to single phase 220V will these components work?

 

[westward10]

You need to know the primary voltage of the transformer.

 

[mike-gr]

You need to know the primary voltage of the transformer.

You mean i have to measure the current voltage at the white cable No1 & 2?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Better to either read it off the transformer or see how the supply to is is configured.

If the machine does not have a neutral connection, the transformer must be 400V. If you are lucky, it will have an internal tapping selector to alter to 230V, under one of the silver end covers. If the machine has a neutral connection, and the transformer is connected between that and one phase, it is 230V and will work with the single-phase supply without any alteration.

If the transformer is 400V only, you have two choices. Find out what its secondary (output) voltage is and replace it with an equivalent with a 230V primary, or, rather clumsily, step the 230V up to 400V feed this one.