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M

mikey12

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hi all been reading posts brilliant stuff one question though could someone please tell me what i need to register with governing body i have done my DEI and are on the point of doing my C+G 17th edition full course once this is completed my C+G 2391 L2 i believe correct me if im wrong is this enough as i want to concentrate on domestic installations your feedback good or bad would be greatly received:D:D
 
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M

Malcg

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Mikey

What actual work have you done as the supervisor? Or are you just finishing college?

Malcg
 
M

mikey12

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
sorry mate im no supervisor i wish to work for myself doing domestic installations and was wondering if the above quals are enough to register with a governing body to carry out domestic work ie:extra sockets ,lighting points concumer unit replacements and rewires in the future,wont be working on own assistance from sparky whos been in game 25yrs:)
 
M

Malcg

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Mikey

To be Part P registered you have to be assessed by one of the bodies NIC, NAPIT etc against two recent jobs. Passing a course at college is not being registered as Part P!!

You need to upgrade to 2382 (17th Edition) before July 1st and carry out several installations before you will hvae enough experience to do the Inspection & Testing.
You will also need to be taking the 2392 (17th Edition) suggest after your Part P registered.

The first few jobs will have to be done using (and paying) Building Control to pass them and then NIC / NAPIT can assess you for these jobs to get you registered. You need to be the "supervisor" of the work so you cant work for someone else and use those jobs!

You will have had to trade as "supervisor" for at least six months before applying to register as Part P, and at least two years to apply for approved contractor with NIC.

Everyone has to start the same way - but dont cut corners or omit Building Control or you will fail on first hurdle!!

Good luck
 
M

mikey12

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
thanks malcg so my next step would be to do my 2382 17th by the 1st july then apply to niceic or other governing body ive done minor works ie:extra sockets or lighting points.So i believe to register with nic they state that you have to show them 2 pieces of work you have done 1 minor and 1 major but to do these i have to notify building control before doing them and after completion so they can inspect first is this correct if so i believe a major job is a consumer unit and minor could be a socket.Just for info what happens if i dont do 17th before 1st july sorry mate about long post trying to get all info right:eek:
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
thanks malcg so my next step would be to do my 2382 17th by the 1st july then apply to niceic or other governing body ive done minor works ie:extra sockets or lighting points.So i believe to register with nic they state that you have to show them 2 pieces of work you have done 1 minor and 1 major but to do these i have to notify building control before doing them and after completion so they can inspect first is this correct if so i believe a major job is a consumer unit and minor could be a socket.Just for info what happens if i dont do 17th before 1st july sorry mate about long post trying to get all info right:eek:
its not about getting it before 01 Jul, but you WILL have to get it before you join one of the schemes

yes, you quals will be enough to join, but like has already been said, you generally have to be trading for 6 months

the 2392 is a good move if you are not familiar with testing.

If you have done the DEI, you will find 2392 is the about the same level, at least you will have a formal test & inspect qual

You dont NEED 2391 to join a scheme, but you wont be able to do PIR's under the scheme without it
 
M

mikey12

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
ok thanks shakey so if i now complete my 2382 and you said trade for at least 6 mths before registering with niceic who i wish to go with that seems to be the main one then consider my inspection and test that will be ok . In the meantime can i continue doing minor jobs and one thing i was unsure about when you do your 2 jobs for inspection 1 minor 1 major i inform building control before i start these and upon completion is that correct sorry for going on but i want to get it all right:D:D
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
ok thanks shakey so if i now complete my 2382 and you said trade for at least 6 mths before registering with niceic who i wish to go with that seems to be the main one then consider my inspection and test that will be ok . In the meantime can i continue doing minor jobs and one thing i was unsure about when you do your 2 jobs for inspection 1 minor 1 major i inform building control before i start these and upon completion is that correct sorry for going on but i want to get it all right:D:D
why can you only do minor jobs?

look at it like this; the work you do (and can do) is exactly the same whether or not you are registered with a competent persons scheme

the work is till carried out, and you still need to test, inspect and certify it

only thing that changes is now you have to pre-notify all notifiable work to the LABC and submit copies of your certificates to them (they may want to inspect depending on the job), and when you join a competen persons scheme, you inform the scheme that you have done the work, but, the point is, the actaul work itself doesnt change, just the notification process
 
M

mikey12

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
god dont i go on:):)

so i can do full installations ie rewires providing i notify building control once complete so they can inspect it as i know this costs you per inspection i believe ive got it now thanks:cool:

sorry shakey just been reading one of your other posts im repeating the same subject already covered:eek:
 
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M

Malcg

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
so i can do full installations ie rewires providing i notify building control once complete so they can inspect it as i know this costs you per inspection i believe ive got it now thanks
NO YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD!!

The Owner of you on behalf of the Owner must register with building control BEFORE you start work - not during or after. The amount you pay to Buidling Control is dependant on the real value of the work being done (no false prices!!).

You have to give building control an opportunity to see the installation a) before you start, b) after first fix, and c) on completion with all the test results - BUT BEFORE BEING MADE LIVE for user.

You will also need to show compliance with the various sections of the Buidling Regulations:
B - Fire Safety
C - ... Resistance to Moisture
E - Resistance to the Passage of Sound
F - Ventilation
L - Conservation of Fuel and Power
M - Access to and Use of Buildings
P - Electrical Safety (of course)
BTW: It is a criminal offence to carry out work that does not comply with building regulations, with a maximum fine of £5,000 - the Owner would be liable for this offence!
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
NO YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD!!

The Owner of you on behalf of the Owner must register with building control BEFORE you start work - not during or after. The amount you pay to Buidling Control is dependant on the real value of the work being done (no false prices!!).

You have to give building control an opportunity to see the installation a) before you start, b) after first fix, and c) on completion with all the test results - BUT BEFORE BEING MADE LIVE for user.


You will also need to show compliance with the various sections of the Buidling Regulations:
B - Fire Safety​

C - ... Resistance to Moisture​

E - Resistance to the Passage of Sound​

F - Ventilation​

L - Conservation of Fuel and Power​

M - Access to and Use of Buildings​

P - Electrical Safety (of course)​
BTW: It is a criminal offence to carry out work that does not comply with building regulations, with a maximum fine of £5,000 - the Owner would be liable for this offence!

I am not aware of a requirement for the LABC to see the job before you start - yes they may want to do a pre-plaster check, and what's this about them seeing it 'before being made live for the user'?

the installation must be powered up to do your tests, so if it passes, and is safe, are you suggesting the user is not allowed to use it until the council come 'round? :confused:

I am both qualified and competent to install and test my own work - and there is not a man alive in this country that can overule or overide my testing of the installation. My decisions as the inspector are final and absolute, and NO-ONe (including the unqualified monkeys at the LABC) has the power to question my decisions
 
M

Malcg

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
I am not aware of a requirement for the LABC to see the job before you start - yes they may want to do a pre-plaster check, and what's this about them seeing it 'before being made live for the user'?

the installation must be powered up to do your tests, so if it passes, and is safe, are you suggesting the user is not allowed to use it until the council come 'round? :confused:

I am both qualified and competent to install and test my own work - and there is not a man alive in this country that can overule or overide my testing of the installation. My decisions as the inspector are final and absolute, and NO-ONe (including the unqualified monkeys at the LABC) has the power to question my decisions
YOU DONT READ DO YOU

This reply was addressed to a member who is trying to get Part P registration - not one who is registered.

You are also very cockey - Any complaints procedure against your work would involve a senior engineer being able to inspect your work and requiring you to put it right if it is unsafe or not to the current standards. Or did your qualify above everyone else.
 
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C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Assuming there is a complaints proceedure in place which someone then tries to follow then I take it someone WOULD be entitled to check your work Shakey and even re-test?

And please chaps, can we leave the personal insults for other forums? We don't need to sling words at each other to get our point across do we.
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
YOU DONT READ DO YOU

This reply was addressed to a member who is trying to get Part P registration - not one who is registered.

You are also very cockey - Any complaints procedure against your work would involve a senior engineer being able to inspect your work and requiring you to put it right if it is unsafe or not to the current standards. Or did your qualify above everyone else.
I presume if he had tested the work ,and checked his results and the work complys,then at whos cost is the work altered ,if its on the say so ,of this "senior inspector" and the electrician who carried out the work looses out financially,then surely it needs to go through some form of litigation,if its then proved the inspector was being vindictive,then surelly you would have a valled claim against him ,the same as builders do against surveyors ,and building inspectors,otherwise all anyone needs to do ,is complain about the work ,bung the inspector ,and get out of paying for the job

And as i understand it ,one has to comply with part p of the building regs ,whats this regerstration ? or have i got that wrong ?
 
M

Malcg

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
I presume if he had tested the work ,and checked his results and the work complys,then at whos cost is the work altered ,if its on the say so ,of this "senior inspector" and the electrician who carried out the work looses out financially,then surely it needs to go through some form of litigation,if its then proved the inspector was being vindictive,then surelly you would have a valled claim against him ,the same as builders do against surveyors ,and building inspectors,otherwise all anyone needs to do ,is complain about the work ,bung the inspector ,and get out of paying for the job

And as i understand it ,one has to comply with part p of the building regs ,whats this regerstration ? or have i got that wrong ?
Q1. As I am NICEIC registered I give that answer (I think all the others have similar):
  1. If customer decides that they wish to complain for whatever reason about the electrical work, they complete a Complaints Form
  2. A senior engineer from NICEIC is allocated. They will confirm details and visit site to inspect.
  3. If the work is unsafe or not up to standard, the visit will be charged to the Registered electrician. Otherwise NICEIC takes the cost.
  4. The Registered electrician will be given a report, expected to rectify the installation and may be revisited by NICEIC to check his work.
  5. If the electrician is unable to put right (bust or refuses), NICEIC insurance will pay for another electrician to correct installation.
  6. If there is a commercial dispute between Registered electrician and customer the complaint procedure cannot be activated.
It is very difficult to litigate for bad workmanship unless someone's life has been threatened or eliminated by faulty workmanship. E.g. a valid defense is that I am compenent and carried out the work to the best of my ability.

I understand that the industry is setting up a means of reporting bad workmanship so that obvious failures (e.g. bad earthing) can be reported for pursuit. Also the HSE regulations are being strengthened to match the strength of the CORGI regulations. Currently EWR only applies while an electrician is working on site - as soon as work is complete EWR no longer applies (- daft!!)

Q2. If you wish to self-certify work under Part P, the electrician has to be registered with an appropriate body, e.g. NICEIC, NAPIT, etc. Sorry about confussion, this whole thread was started by a guy who wish to work towards getting registered under Part P.

Hope that clears this up!
 
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R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Q1. As I am NICEIC registered I give that answer (I think all the others have similar):
  1. If customer decides that they wish to complain for whatever reason about the electrical work, they complete a Complaints Form
  2. A senior engineer from NICEIC is allocated. They will confirm details and visit site to inspect.
  3. If the work is unsafe or not up to standard, the visit will be charged to the Registered electrician. Otherwise NICEIC takes the cost.
  4. The Registered electrician will be given a report, expected to rectify the installation and may be revisited by NICEIC to check his work.
  5. If the electrician is unable to put right (bust or refuses), NICEIC insurance will pay for another electrician to correct installation.
  6. If there is a commercial dispute between Registered electrician and customer the complaint procedure cannot be activated.
Q2. If you wish to self-certify work under Part P, the electrician has to be registered with an appropriate body, e.g. NICEIC, NAPIT, etc. Sorry about confussion, this whole thread was started by a guy who wish to work towards getting registered under Part P.

Hope that clears this up!
Hi ,
Yes that clarifies it ,i wasnt thinking you were on about the niceic, that explains it all.:eek:

and as far as question 2, do you have to be regerstered with one of these commercial organisations,to self cirtify you work ,i understood you didnt:confused:
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Am I missing something? I thought you could self-certify work as long as if you were not in Napit, NICEIC etc then you pay a fee to LABC. All assuming you are 'competent'.
 
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rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Am I missing something? I thought you could self-certify work as long as if you were not in Napit, NICEIC etc then you pay a fee to LABC. All assuming you are 'competent'.
Thats what i understood aswell .the niceic ,napit and any of the other growing "schemes" will lead you to belive this is the case ,im not sure but i dont think its got to that yet:mad:
 
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Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
I was led to think that this is the case but that the NIC were simply trying to get as many people on board so if they can alter the way people think so that naturally we all then believe we have got to join them in order to self cert then hey......
I reckon that as long as you are competent and test, inspect and complete paperwork properly whilst informing/paying LABC then there is nothing wrong with that. In the long run joining an approved body will be much cheaper that paying LABC each time.
 
M

Malcg

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Am I missing something? I thought you could self-certify work as long as if you were not in Napit, NICEIC etc then you pay a fee to LABC. All assuming you are 'competent'.
If you are not registered under Part P with one of the FIVE bodies accredited for this purpose - BRE, BSI, ELECSA, NAPIT or NICEIC - you must use LABC to ensure the certificate is recorded at LABC.

If you are Part P registered, you can self-certify by using your bodies online system for entering broad details of the work carried out - this is then transmitted to LABC.

The fact a certificate has been issued is then "searchable" in legal terms - e.g. when a house is about to be purchased (this will become part of HIP in due course).

The Part P Approved document confirms this and more (pages 11 to 13) - link here
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Thank you Malc- crystal clear now.
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
YOU DONT READ DO YOU

This reply was addressed to a member who is trying to get Part P registration - not one who is registered.

You are also very cockey - Any complaints procedure against your work would involve a senior engineer being able to inspect your work and requiring you to put it right if it is unsafe or not to the current standards. Or did your qualify above everyone else.
I read perfectly well thank you, try it!

When did i mention anything about being registered?

I am not a member of a competent persons scheme - and I am not cockey, but I am competent

I did not qualify above anyone else, but tneither did they qualify above me. The point is (barring any regs contraventions etc) that if my work is installed in accordance with the current edition of the regs, and is tested satisfactorily as such, then no-one has the authority to question my decisions.

One person may say "well I would have done it like this", but as long as the way I have done it complies, then their opinion is just that - an opionion

I find your attitude to posts quite aggressive, and like Cirrus says, lets keep it civil!

Q1. As I am NICEIC registered I give that answer (I think all the others have similar):
  1. If customer decides that they wish to complain for whatever reason about the electrical work, they complete a Complaints Form
  2. A senior engineer from NICEIC is allocated. They will confirm details and visit site to inspect.
  3. If the work is unsafe or not up to standard, the visit will be charged to the Registered electrician. Otherwise NICEIC takes the cost.
  4. The Registered electrician will be given a report, expected to rectify the installation and may be revisited by NICEIC to check his work.
  5. If the electrician is unable to put right (bust or refuses), NICEIC insurance will pay for another electrician to correct installation.
  6. If there is a commercial dispute between Registered electrician and customer the complaint procedure cannot be activated.
It is very difficult to litigate for bad workmanship unless someone's life has been threatened or eliminated by faulty workmanship. E.g. a valid defense is that I am compenent and carried out the work to the best of my ability.

I understand that the industry is setting up a means of reporting bad workmanship so that obvious failures (e.g. bad earthing) can be reported for pursuit. Also the HSE regulations are being strengthened to match the strength of the CORGI regulations. Currently EWR only applies while an electrician is working on site - as soon as work is complete EWR no longer applies (- daft!!)

Q2. If you wish to self-certify work under Part P, the electrician has to be registered with an appropriate body, e.g. NICEIC, NAPIT, etc. Sorry about confussion, this whole thread was started by a guy who wish to work towards getting registered under Part P.

Hope that clears this up!
And there is the point Malc, you are NICEIC registered, so you must follow their rules. I am not, so I dont have to. No NICEIC engineer, senior or otherwise, has the power to overule my work. My work complies with BS7671, and that is the requirement

And I CAN self certify - The Approved Documnet to Part P specifically allows me to do this - although I believe YOUR definition of 'self-certifying' may differ from mine.

I follow para's 1.20B, 1.21, 1.22 & 1.23 which specificaly states that because I am qualified and competent to do so, I should test my own work and compile BS7671 certificates for submission to the LABC. This is self-certifying my own work, and is perfectly acceptable.
 
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D

Darius-parky

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
This is what I copy and paste from Part P website:

Does Part P Apply To Me?

Part P applies to all electrical installation work carried out in dwellings. However, you do not need to tell your local authority's Building Control department about:
  • repairs and maintenance work or
  • extra power points or lighting points or other alterations to existing circuits (except in specially defined areas such as a kitchen, bathroom or outdoors)
If you are unsure you should contact your local authority's Building Control department or, if you are already dealing with a Competent Person, they should be able to advise you.

To find your local Building Control department visit the LABC website
 
M

mikey12

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
CHRIST i only started by asking a few questions :cool: down lads i understood the forum was here to help lol i think by the replys i got i now understand:eek:if i dont now i never will :Dmust think of something else to ask soon but will be careful on how i word it:cool:thanks for all the replys though
 

Des 56

-
Arms
Esteemed
How can so much confusion be still here within the trade 3 years after this part p nonesense was dreamed up
We hear complaints continually from within the trade that the general public know nothing of part p and if they do know of it then its ignored
How can we not see the nonesense for what it is when the trade itself after 3 years is still arguing about its set up/function/entry requirements etc Then be upset that its not better known generally by the public

Anyone installing electrical installations in mainly Domestic properties has to comply with Bs 7671 or a simmilar standard
All installations should be tested and inspected and the appropriate certificate issued
To test and inspect your work You need to be competent
Competence can be gained by qualifications to the current edition of the regs Test and inspection experience and knowledge and experience of the type of work carried out

Part p is a requirement to comply with the building regs
Most electrical work in domestic properties may be on the list of work that requires notification to labc
You notify labc before carrying out the work and possibly pay a fee set by the local office (unless other work is being overseen by guilding control in which case the electrical fee is included in this)
They are then responsible for the test and inspection (no fee payable)
They may if they please accept your own certificates if they consider you competent
(they will generally do this because they cant test and inspect themselves,so its more convieniant to use your's)

To avoid having to notify labc
Buisnesses (not individuals) can be registered as a competent person to self certify their work as complying with the building regs
For a buisness to be able to self certify They must join one of the government approved bodies who are listed as registration bodies by the Communities and local government Dept
To qualify as a competent person The buisness must possess the required knowledge /books /paperwork test meters and so on
Now to come full circle
To join a scheme you must pay their fee
Dont join and you must pay labc fees

It just boils down in the end To whom does my money now be gifted
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
well done Des:)

so there chaps, thats it in a nutshell
 

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