Discuss When old phase colours are used in socket circuits... in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Status
Not open for further replies.

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
IMG_3772.JPG Just finished work (10 pm) was wiring in a socket or two. As it was late had to keep me marbles about me! Strange feeling connecting blue into live.
 

buzzlightyear

please let me back in to the prison cell.
Electrician's Arms
Messages
6,887
Location
star command
are those single core cables in the conduit ,and if so why are the line marked up & why have used the neutral for the line ?
you better put your tin hat on and a flack jacket on .
 

westward10

In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream.
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,529
Location
Northamptonshire
This is a case of blue line/black neutral from probably the eighties and brown line/blue neutral from today. It never complied then although it was common practice.
 

spinlondon

Forum Mentor
Messages
11,076
Location
Harlow Essex
Must admit, with those particular colours, I would consider swapping Black for Blue and sleeving the end of the Black with brown.
 

Rpa07

4000 posts - only 54195 behind Telectrix!
Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,204
Location
Bristol
Just bought 100metres if Brown 3mm Vortigern want to borrow 5cm?
Also @westward10 i have invested in 100metres of 2mm green and yellow - can I come home now?
 
OP
Vortigern

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
Yes I do get the sleeving thing. However the whole building (around 20 units) have this all over on all the circuits. Use of phase colours was flagged on the EICR we did last year on all circuits. So I just put the mixed colours notice on the DB. No one is going to get in there or even on site fiddling with the electrics if they are not qualified to do so.
 

Rpa07

4000 posts - only 54195 behind Telectrix!
Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,204
Location
Bristol
He’ll reply in a defensive solicitor lawyer babble in a minute and we’ll all give in a mutter ‘uh huh’!
Edit - told you so!
 

Rpa07

4000 posts - only 54195 behind Telectrix!
Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,204
Location
Bristol
It’ll be you updating and ripping out the old so yes, I’ll have it back when you’ve finished with it. This ain’t no charity you know (double negative intended!)
 

buzzlightyear

please let me back in to the prison cell.
Electrician's Arms
Messages
6,887
Location
star command
Use of phase colours was flagged on the EICR we did last year on all circuits. So I just put the mixed colours notice on the DB
was their another notice ,saying play with these colours will cause you a pain of
death love VORT .
 
OP
Vortigern

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
I would consider swapping Black for Blue
Maybe in certain circumstances. However I had to remove a section of the ring and re-instate it as the wall was being made thicker with a false wall. It would have meant rewiring the whole ring which I don't think the client would pay for.
 
OP
Vortigern

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
Where ever you work in these set of buildings they use the phase colours so you get the old Red Yellow Blue as line in the same unit it can be a bit crazy sometimes. If you went on site any where and started work before that you would hopefully ask for any certs for the area you are going to work in and you would see phase colours are being used in these units. To be honest if you could not figure out what was going on then you should not be working on it. I wonder what people who have only worked with new colours would make of it. I am not completely convinced that a bit of brown dabbed onto the blue would make things clear it may cause more confusion than it clears as you are departing from a pattern on that circuit but of course as you all know I am very open minded.
 
OP
Vortigern

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
And anyway I never agreed to harmonisation and now we have voted to leave I am pioneering a return to the old colours. That will be fun in the future.
 

123

Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,662
Location
East Antrim, Northern Ireland
I don't think it was ever correct to have single phase circuits wired in phase colours? So install was never right. Personally I'd have have sleeved/taped the conductors to current colours in all sockets worked at.

@Risteard will know better but I think it is a requirement in South of Ireland for single phase circuits to be identified in phase colour on a 3 phase install?
 
OP
Vortigern

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
I do agree I should have sleeved it actually. And will do so in the future. I am sitting on the bottom step of the stairs (the naughty step) having a steel bottom and playing wow.
 
OP
Vortigern

Vortigern

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,766
Location
England
What is funny about it
The further level of confusion that brings about as that phase colour (black) is the new yellow. Combine that with brown and blue being the new red and black of the older cables which are in fact blue and black in this instance it begins to sound like that scene in a film where they are talking about the "potion in the lotion" and the "chalice in the palace" and so on. Can't quite remember the film.
 

Des 56

Forum Mentor
Messages
7,371
Location
Gliese 581C
There should be clarity on these changes of colours to make all aware of what goes where
I posted this a few years ago :)

In older times,the 3 live conductors were coloured Red ,White, Blue, the Black was neutral and a bare earth
These then changed to Red Yellow Blue,it was much the same but the White had been replaced by Yellow with the Black hanging on to its neutral tag

As we are aware,yet another change means at present, a live may now be Brown, Black or Grey and the Blue neutral (or the neutral could even be a Grey that is over sleeved as Blue)
This Blue has replaced the Black in older systems for single phase, however, it remains as a live for 3 phase with those older systems, not forgetting the Green/Yellow which as superseded the Green

In order not to complicate the matter. but for reference, the bare earth that was Green and is now Green/Yellow, may in fact be Cream if you use a lot of IT eqipment

Other colours are not precluded, as long as coloured identification is used unless its single core which must be green/yellow

So put concisely
The live may be Brown, Red, White, Black, Grey, Yellow or Blue
The neutral may be Black,Blue or even Grey:)

However, colours for central heating control systems may be unfamiliar to some ;)

Be familiar with this information before attempting electrical work :(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Electrician Talk

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
Top