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Discuss When to re-wire?? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Strickers

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Arms
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Hi guys, when would you consider a re-wire was nesscesary?? I recently when to a property to have a look at a consumer unit change to find in my a opinion a mess!! The consumer unit (old wylex re-wireable type) hanginging off the wall no bonding at all. So on further investigation i found a few pieces of old black rubber for switch drops some dodgy diy type work i.e cables just laid across carpets etc... and told the client its a bit of a dog and it needs a re-wire.1 day before i was to start customer cancelled and i found out that an electrician had done the remedial work and board change for her for £450. Im i just unlucky or im i just a little bit keen to re-wire houses!!!

help
 
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G

Guest123

Hey strickers.

Any sniff of rubber cables mate and you have to re-wire no two ways about it.

Problem is you cant really tell for sure that the rubber hasn't just been jointed under the floor somewhere with new T& E run in for new sockets/lights etc.

Do you think the other guy supplied a new c.u, earthing and bonding and replaced all old rubber for £450?? course he didn't.

Your better off sleeping soundly in your bed knowing that you offered the correct advice.

Cheers.
 

Strickers

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Thanks lenny, just still a little raw about the fact that i lost a weeks work. And trust me as much as you want to do a job right they'll always be some idiot that will come and cut corners. Cheers i'll just have to keep telling myself im fighting for the good guys.
 
G

Guest123

Absolutely.

It just saddens me to think that there are people, who at the end of the day are willing to put peoples lives in danger just to make a fast buck!!

It also makes it harder for the rest of us because it gives us a bad name also as we are all tarred with the same brush.

As you were Strickers mate, as you were.;)
 
S

sivoodoo

I agree, really stupid of the client really, its their life at stake, people should be a bit more aware.
But, unfortunately everyone is feeling the downturn and our prices have to refelect that too.
 

Strickers

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Arms
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  • #6
I can understand that it's a cut thoat world out there at the moment but i charge £20 per/hr for my services. It really isn't possible to go any cheaper if i did i might as well just jack it in and stack shelves at asda!
 
S

Spudnik

I can understand that it's a cut thoat world out there at the moment but i charge £20 per/hr for my services. It really isn't possible to go any cheaper if i did i might as well just jack it in and stack shelves at asda!
An opinion shared by many sparks im afraid.
 
H

hughesy

I always do the work then fail it on the cert and inform the customer of what repairs need to be carried out and give them an eatsimate for the total cost of repair or re wire in most cases.
 

Strickers

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
But aren't you supposed to do a periodic before you do a board change, i know i wouldn't be happy if someone expected me to have a re-wire if i thought i was just paying for a board change.
 
H

hughesy

But aren't you supposed to do a periodic before you do a board change, i know i wouldn't be happy if someone expected me to have a re-wire if i thought i was just paying for a board change.
not sure on wether you have to or not, and i tell the customer when i have installed the new board i will test the whole installation and issue a report on its condition with an estimate for cost of repairs if any are needed and they are always happy with that also whilst doing estimate for new mains i include for installing bonding if needed as we arent meant to carry out work in a property with out bonding in place.(i carry out many mains changes and have allways done it like this with no repercussions as long as you are honest and carry out good work and issue all the right certificates the customer should be happy as its not our fault their house requires rewiring(if it does) but thanks for making it that bit safer by installing a new 17th edition mains board.
 
P

pushrod

I always do the work then fail it on the cert and inform the customer of what repairs need to be carried out and give them an eatsimate for the total cost of repair or re wire in most cases.
How do you organise/manage that? Do they get the certificate in the post after they have paid or do you tell them in advance that there is a good chance of you having to fail your work because of the state of the circuits/installation in the rest of the house? I could imagine that people might be reluctant to payout for work that doesn't get a pass certificate unless you really spend ages explaining it all to them.
 
H

hughesy

How do you organise/manage that? Do they get the certificate in the post after they have paid or do you tell them in advance that there is a good chance of you having to fail your work because of the state of the circuits/installation in the rest of the house? I could imagine that people might be reluctant to payout for work that doesn't get a pass certificate unless you really spend ages explaining it all to them.
I don mean fail my, work my work as in the new mains would be fine but when you then test the installation if it is sub standard then it fails and you put what it requires in the comments box , and also i dont send certificates out till the bill has been paid because ive had 1 0r 2 not pay even with a satisfactory cert.and everything the customer needs to know is in the estimate in writing never had any problems yet and most of the time when i send the certs withan estimate for the repairs which need carrying out they have me back to do them
 
P

pushrod

thanks hughesy , i know your work is ok just wondering what the customer would think after paying £300 or £400 . So for example someone says i want a new 17th edition CU but when you price it you notice the lighting doesn't have an earth in it and not all their light fittings are class 2 and they don't want to change the non legal(?) ones or have a rewire of the lighting circuit. Would you go ahead do the job and then just write up the failings on the certificate or should you keep well away?
 
I don mean fail my, work my work as in the new mains would be fine but when you then test the installation if it is sub standard then it fails and you put what it requires in the comments box , and also i dont send certificates out till the bill has been paid because ive had 1 0r 2 not pay even with a satisfactory cert.and everything the customer needs to know is in the estimate in writing never had any problems yet and most of the time when i send the certs withan estimate for the repairs which need carrying out they have me back to do them

thats what my work does aswel
 
H

hughesy

thanks hughesy , i know your work is ok just wondering what the customer would think after paying £300 or £400 . So for example someone says i want a new 17th edition CU but when you price it you notice the lighting doesn't have an earth in it and not all their light fittings are class 2 and they don't want to change the non legal(?) ones or have a rewire of the lighting circuit. Would you go ahead do the job and then just write up the failings on the certificate or should you keep well away?
do the work and write up the remedial items with an estimate for cost of repair, if you dont how many times are we gonna refuse jobs because the customer wont have all the repairs done some say do a periodic first but this adds more cost to the customer so say you wanted to change the mains some say do a periodic 100+vat up to a 3 bed then you give the estimate for new mains rewire lights upgrade bonding from 6 to 10mm and pass it too the customer and they say omg no thank you so you may have made 100 quid on the test but dont get the mains change and the installation is left in a worse state than if you just did the mains change then carried out the inspection and test after all the new boards are miles safer than the old wylex you replaced.

thats what my work does aswel
cheers mate was beginning to think i was the only one
 
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S

sivoodoo

thanks hughesy , i know your work is ok just wondering what the customer would think after paying £300 or £400 . So for example someone says i want a new 17th edition CU but when you price it you notice the lighting doesn't have an earth in it and not all their light fittings are class 2 and they don't want to change the non legal(?) ones or have a rewire of the lighting circuit. Would you go ahead do the job and then just write up the failings on the certificate or should you keep well away?
I had just that this week, advised them to replace any class 1s with class 2s after fitting new RCBO board, much safer than the old wylex wood crate, gave them a copy of the electrical safety councils best practice guide on the matter and they are happy. Its hard to walk away from a job where there may be safety issues but whatever we do we are (I hope) leaving the place in a healthier safer state than it was when we walked in.
 
K

kung

Yep certs with payment always ! I tell customers i will order bits and when delivered they pay and all i need do is charge for install etc dont get any problem with that and if they dont pay then ive just lost labour but they dont get cert.
Better than losing more !
Regards
Kung.
 

Strickers

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
When doing a consumer unit change you must obviously fill in an installation certificate. You can't put a fail on an installation cert so you can't do a consumer unit change unless you are going to do all remedial work. By changing the consumer unit your taking responsibility for the complete installation. What a can you worms!!! I agree that it possibly would be better to change the consumer even if you don't do remedial works but you cant.
 
S

Spudnik

With CU changes you do not take responsibility for the whole installation, PROVIDED, the cert states exactly what you did.

I also mark the next inspection sticker with 'CU CHANGE ONLY' so that its clear to anyone coming along to do any other works sometime in the future.
 
H

hughesy

When doing a consumer unit change you must obviously fill in an installation certificate. You can't put a fail on an installation cert so you can't do a consumer unit change unless you are going to do all remedial work. By changing the consumer unit your taking responsibility for the complete installation. What a can you worms!!! I agree that it possibly would be better to change the consumer even if you don't do remedial works but you cant.
so lets all start replacing consumer units and bring the installation up to standard for free.
and can we not write in the comments box on pg 1 that the instalation is in an unsatisfactory condition ?

With CU changes you do not take responsibility for the whole installation, PROVIDED, the cert states exactly what you did.

I also mark the next inspection sticker with 'CU CHANGE ONLY' so that its clear to anyone coming along to do any other works sometime in the future.
very good point .
 
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S

Spudnik

I think the most common problem with CU upgrades is the lack or undersized bonding and main earthing which should be addressed.

Deviations are normally green sleeving, non fire rated d/lights where required etc. which can usually be coded accordingly.
 

Strickers

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
With CU changes you do not take responsibility for the whole installation, PROVIDED, the cert states exactly what you did.

I also mark the next inspection sticker with 'CU CHANGE ONLY' so that its clear to anyone coming along to do any other works sometime in the future.
I May be wrong but i was under the impression that if you change a consumer unit your modifying the circuit, when doing a modification it must meet 17th edition. I may have just therefore for past few years since being self-employed been turning away work because i wont' leave a job if it needs remedial work because i think its unsafe. Darn it
 
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