Where are CCTV notices required?

[markythesparky]

Could someone tell me what the law is on whether notices are necessary on properties having CCTV?Domestic, Industrial and Commercial please.

Thanks.

 

[FatAlan]

There is guidance published on the gov website as it comes within data protection legislation. On domestic premises you just have to bear in mind intrusion on neighbouring properties and public spaces.

 

[pirate]

Yes, you need notices whether commercial or domestic or non-commercial like social clubs, sports clubs etc.because you have to warn people that cameras are in use.
However, the wording is important. Saying CCTV images are being recorded is one thing...saying CCTV images may be recorded is quite another...use the latter if you want to avoid problems...provided that the former is not actually true...always interrupt the recording unless continuous monitoring is necessary and justifiable.

 

[chris gray]

Do you not also have to make people aware of the reason you are recording on commercial property?

 

[littlespark]

Something along the lines of.... "CCTV in operation. Because some scum toe rag tried breaking into my van last week. If you can read this, you're already on my property which I didn't give you permission for. Turn around, walk away. Go do something useful, you little t**t instead of trying doors on my street looking for car keys. You've got 5 seconds to get off my drive before I let the hungry Doberman loose... 5.... 4..... 3..... 2..… "

 

[pirate]

Yes, indeed you do. However, "for security purposes" is quite sufficient if you are clearly protecting property and contents, and also broadly covers external monitoring, so a perimeter may be "patrolled" where there is no other reason for the scrutiny other than to protect the property. Fine lines...but actually quite straightforward. Nothing to hide? Nothing to complain about! However...and this has happened...say that you ARE recording, and you will be sued if an incident happens and you didn't capture it on your camera because it was switched off...the victim will say he/she was relying on your camera to keep them safe...
Say that images MIGHT or MAY or OCCASIONALLY be recorded relieves you of this liability.
As always, the law is complicated...

 

[FatAlan]

Yes, indeed you do. However, "for security purposes" is quite sufficient if you are clearly protecting property and contents, and also broadly covers external monitoring, so a perimeter may be "patrolled" where there is no other reason for the scrutiny other than to protect the property. Fine lines...but actually quite straightforward. Nothing to hide? Nothing to complain about! However...and this has happened...say that you ARE recording, and you will be sued if an incident happens and you didn't capture it on your camera because it was switched off...the victim will say he/she was relying on your camera to keep them safe...
Say that images MIGHT or MAY or OCCASIONALLY be recorded relieves you of this liability.
As always, the law is complicated...

Really? Spent years trawling CCTV systems which covered criminal incidents. Numerous occasions when they were not operating or just very poor...more often than not in fact. Never heard of anyone being sued cos they weren’t working or switched off.

 

[markythesparky]

Blimey! What a mine field.

What about if somebody has CCTV, a break in or damage occurs. Can the recorded footage be used to prosecute even though no signs were present?

 

[Octopus]

Blimey! What a mine field.

What about if somebody has CCTV, a break in or damage occurs. Can the recorded footage be used to prosecute even though no signs were present?

Most CCTV systems have rubbish images, especially at night and if people are wearing hoodies you can't even tell the sex of the person .....

 

[markythesparky]

Most CCTV systems have rubbish images, especially at night and if people are wearing hoodies you can't even tell the sex of the person .....

To be honest, I struggle with that on a normal Friday night out!

 

[FatAlan]

Blimey! What a mine field.

What about if somebody has CCTV, a break in or damage occurs. Can the recorded footage be used to prosecute even though no signs were present?

Yes.

 

[FatAlan]

It does start to get tricky with targeted covert surveillance by law enforcement agencies as this has to be authorised under The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act. Many hours spent on applications to senior officers who want war and peace written on the justification and public interest on why you want to set up surveillance on billy burglar. If you’re protecting your own private premises with no intrusion on others then it’s usually ok.

 

[markythesparky]

What about if the camera picks up a crash on the public highway that has damaged the cctv owners car as it was parked outside on the street?

 

[pirate]

FatAlan, I took your point on board and spent some time with my CCTV guru today discussing this. He told me I was wrong! My mistake was misinterpreting what he had told me previously. If you have CCTV and you post signs saying it is recording AND that particular CCTV is perimeter-patrolling FOR THE PROTECTION OF EMPLOYEES who rely upon it, then if it is non-operational and you don't fix it, then you expose them to a risk they were not expecting and thus you can be sued if an incident occurs where they are not monitored. Completely different from the broad-brush I suggested. I stand corrected, and regret my error on this, and am obliged for your query which led me to check further.
On a different point, as you may know I am involved with the Men's Shed charity in renovationg an old building where inter alia we have installed CCTV to cover the whole perimeter of the building and about 5 metres into the adjoining park. The resolution of the cameras is astonishing, well to me and countless other novices anyway, and the reaction from local residents/dog-walkers has been surprising...no-one has raised any objections and many have complimented the system and said it makes them feel safer walking at night. We have been able to play back several sequences which have been of interest to the local Police in excluding people from their enquiries, which is a good thing. As an extra, we are soon to install an external defibrillator for public use 24/7 and this unit will be covered by the CCTV system, hopefully ensuring safety of the device and monitoring of its use. It will be very prominent and should thus be in the radar of regular passers-by. We are becoming a focal point for the local community, and I feel this is a good, forward-thinking move...the park users have been extremely supportive.

 

[FatAlan]

FatAlan, I took your point on board and spent some time with my CCTV guru today discussing this. He told me I was wrong! My mistake was misinterpreting what he had told me previously. If you have CCTV and you post signs saying it is recording AND that particular CCTV is perimeter-patrolling FOR THE PROTECTION OF EMPLOYEES who rely upon it, then if it is non-operational and you don't fix it, then you expose them to a risk they were not expecting and thus you can be sued if an incident occurs where they are not monitored. Completely different from the broad-brush I suggested. I stand corrected, and regret my error on this, and am obliged for your query which led me to check further.
On a different point, as you may know I am involved with the Men's Shed charity in renovationg an old building where inter alia we have installed CCTV to cover the whole perimeter of the building and about 5 metres into the adjoining park. The resolution of the cameras is astonishing, well to me and countless other novices anyway, and the reaction from local residents/dog-walkers has been surprising...no-one has raised any objections and many have complimented the system and said it makes them feel safer walking at night. We have been able to play back several sequences which have been of interest to the local Police in excluding people from their enquiries, which is a good thing. As an extra, we are soon to install an external defibrillator for public use 24/7 and this unit will be covered by the CCTV system, hopefully ensuring safety of the device and monitoring of its use. It will be very prominent and should thus be in the radar of regular passers-by. We are becoming a focal point for the local community, and I feel this is a good, forward-thinking move...the park users have been extremely supportive.

No need to apologise Pirate. I can only speak from experience as an ex police officer. As you state there is a raft of legislation about CCTV in the work place that covers the activities of employees etc that I know next to nothing about.

 

[Urgent Advicepls]

Hi Pirate
Reading your input with interest. The CCTV system with the impressive resolution, what make is it and can it also be used for domestic use?

 

[pirate]

I didn't install it, but the cameras are HikVision, and were chosen so that any intruders could be properly recognised...I am no expert, but the quality is so good that face recognition is excellent. For those who know this sphere, maybe on here, some advice will be forthcoming, I expect. Suffice to say, I am getting a couple for my holiday home.

 

[Urgent Advicepls]

Cheers Pirate

 

[Sintra]

Hikvision is a good system tbh and easy to install and set up.