Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch timers ?

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

As this might be seen as an insignificant `problem` I tried to post this in the DIY section but there was no `New Thread` button showing and my `Status` was showing as `You may not post` - `You may not edit` etc. on that Forum webpage [I was logged in] however I may get more views here.

I Apologise that my explanations below have made this message so LONG - about Lightbulbs !


I have got a possible problem regarding not being able to use the same Phillips Energy Saver Lightbulbs on my Home`s Digital Security Lightswitch Timers that I have been using for YEARS [in 7 Rooms]:


I have had Digital Lightswitch Timers on most of the `Main Lights` in my Home for about 15 Years or more - since the availability of Energy Efficient / Low Energy Lightbulbs [`Lamps`] I have been using `Good Quality` 20 Watt Bulbs.

As I was always aware that the cheap Low Energy Bulbs were NOT suitable for Dimmer Switches or Timers I started off using Osram 20 Watt Low Energy Bulbs - more recently I have been using Phillips 20 Watt Energy Savers - bought a few Years ago.

Before I started using the Osram Low Energy Bulbs I contacted Osram to ask about using with the Timers - they told Me that as long as the Bulb did NOT `Flicker` when the Light was Off their Bulbs should be O.K. to use - when I could not find the Osram Low Energy Bulns I contacted Phillips and was told the same.


None of these ever showed the `Flickering` that I associate with a slight power `leak` through the Digital Timers [?] - I did try a cheap Low Energy Bulb many Years ago to see if / why they would not be suitable.


At that time there was no indication on the boxes that any of these Low Energy Bulbs should not be used with a Dimmer Switch or Lightswitch Timer so although I did check with the Manufacturers I thought at that time `Good Quality` / Known Manufacturer = suitable for Lightswitch Timers - Cheap `Supermarket Special` Low Energy Lightbulbs = Definitely NOT !


NOW THE PROBLEM:

One of the Low Energy Bulbs blew and as I still have a couple of the Phillips 20 Watt Energy Saver Bulbs [from the same batch purchased] I replaced the blown one with the same type - only to find that I got the `Flicker` on the Bulb when the Light was turned Off.

I tried another Phillips 20 Watt Energy Saver - this also Flickered.


I tried these 2 Bulbs in some other Lights - they Flickered in those Rooms also.

This happened during the Week so I contacted Phillips but I could not get to speak to their Technical Department for Lighting products - instead I was advised to submit an enquiry / message on their website as to whether they think that I have 2 Faulty Energy Saver Bulbs OR whether something in the Manufacturing process changed some time ago rendering these 2 Bulbs NOT to be suitable for use with Lightswitch Timers ?

With a Company of their size I will be expecting to wait quite a while for an answer - so I wanted to ask for recommendations from Members who might have come across this situation before.

EDIT:

As I could not find ANY `Dimmable` Low Energy Light Bulbs on the Phillips Lighting website I now doubt whether they will state that these 2 Energy Saver Bulbs are suitable for my Lightswitch Timers.

BUT Why would I have NO problems at all for YEARS using these Phillips Bulbs - until I try to use the last 2 of a purchase of 10 Bulbs ?


Unfortunately I am unable to go anywhere this Weekend / Week where I could buy `Good Quality` / Known Manufacturer` / Phillips or Osram 20 Watt Low Energy Lightbulbs - BUT I wondered if any Members had recommendations for Low Energy Lightbulbs that are suitable for Lightswitch Timers / Dimmer Switches ?

I have not been able to find the OSRAM 20 Watt Low Energy Bulbs that I used to buy even online - perhaps they have been discontinued ?

At present I am using a 70 Watt Halogen Bulb [GLS] in that Light - but I don`t really want to have to dispense with using the 20 Watt Low Energy Bulbs and go to 70 Watt Halogen throughout my Home because I might as well go back to the 100 Watt Bulbs.

Although the Low Energy Bulbs do last quite a long while from MY experience I don`t really want to be paying £8.00 or £10.00 each for lightbulbs unless there are no alternatives ? [I have looked online £8 +].


Thanks for reading this LONG message ! and Thanks in advance for any recommendations.


Regards,


Chris

 

[telectrix]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

have you considered going down the LED route?

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

have you considered going down the LED route?

"Hello Telectrix",

Thanks for your reply.

I have not looked at LED Lightbulbs [Bayonet Cap available ?] because I was under the impression that they would not `Light Up the Room` like a 20 Watt Low Energy Bulb does ? [Good Quality]

As the Lightswitch Timers are for Security purposes I need the Lights to be visible through some of the Room`s Curtains [other curtains have thermal lining] - so the Bulbs need to be as bright as an old 100 Watt GLS Bulb.

Any recommendations ?

Thanks again.

Regards,


Chris

EDIT: I have just found Bayonet Cap 14 Watt GLS Low Energy Dimmable Lightbulbs online - they cost £23.99 ! [plus P&P]:

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/crompton-dimmable-led-14w-gls-warm-white-bc-frosted/p3983/

 

[telectrix]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

i'd try the 13watt LED. only thing to watch out for with the LED lamps is the start-up current is high.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

i'd try the 13watt LED. only thing to watch out for with the LED lamps is the start-up current is high.

"Hello again telectrix",

You must have seen the 13 Watt Phillips LED Bulb that I edited in a link to - unfortunately I just found out that it is NOT `Dimmable` - so I assume also not suitable for my Lightswitch Timers - so I removed the paragraph and link about it probably while You were writing your reply to Me - "Sorry".

Thanks for pointing out about the `Start Up current` - my Lightswitch Timers have `Quick Blow` Fuses so does that mean I should rule out LED Bulbs ?

Regards,

Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

"Hello again telectrix",

You must have seen the 13 Watt Phillips LED Bulb that I edited in a link to - unfortunately I just found out that it is NOT `Dimmable` - so I assume also not suitable for my Lightswitch Timers - so I removed the paragraph and link about it probably while You were writing your reply to Me - "Sorry".

Thanks for pointing out about the `Start Up current` - my Lightswitch Timers have `Quick Blow` Fuses so does that mean I should rule out LED Bulbs ?

Regards,

Chris

"Hello again",

Just in case anyone is EVER Interested in this subject for similar reasons to Me - a bit more detail - although I have still NOT found a suitable Bulb type that is `affordable` / a sensible price:

While researching some details about Dimmable Low Energy Lightbulbs I read an article about them and I found a 20 Watt Phillips Tornado `Dimmable` Spiral CFL Bulb after seeing a link to an Ebay webpage - this is a Screw in bulb and it comes with an Adapter to a Bayonet Cap on the Ebay listing - it is clearly described as Dimmable on the specification:

Dimmable Philips Tornado Light Bulb 20w = 80w 100w E27 B22 Bayonet CFL ES Cap | eBay


However I later found the 23 Watt Phillips Tornado Spiral CFL Bulb with a Bayonet Cap - this is shown to NOT be Dimmable:

Philips Tornado Energy Saver Light Bulb 23W B22 CFL Warm White Spiral Light New | eBay

I wondered if this was because You would probably not buy a 23 Watt [110 watt equivalent ?] if you wanted to Dim it ?


BUT - ON THE PHILLIPS WEBSITE THE ONLY `TORNADO CFL` THAT I CAN FIND [A 20 WATT] IS SHOWN AS NOT DIMMABLE !


The Article on `Dimmable Energy Saving Lightbulbs` is here:

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Dimmable-Energy-Saving-Lightbulbs.htm


I hope that this is not too Boring on a Forum for Professional Electricians - BUT - IF I find a suitable Low Energy Bulb this might help other Members / Readers in future.


I will not be very happy if I have to pay anything like £24.00 EACH for Lightbulbs to suit my Lightswitch Timers !

And I probably would not do that as I doubt whether I could suppress the `Annoyance` every time one Blew !



I have posted these Links to demonstrate that even when one tries to research this subject You can still get `misdirected` and end up buying a Bulb that is NOT compatible with a Lightswitch Timer or Dimmer Switch !


Regards,

Chris

 

[Rockingit]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

If you want to light up a room 'as though it were a 100w GLS'.......why are you looking at dimming in the first place?

Look up Megaman - they do a whole range of decent quality LED lamp replacements.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

If you want to light up a room 'as though it were a 100w GLS'.......why are you looking at dimming in the first place?

"Hello Rockingit",


Thanks for your interest:


It is my understanding that I will need a Low Energy Lightbulb that is rated as `Dimmable` to be compatible with my Home`s Digital Lightswitch Timers:

I believe that this is because the `Electronics` within the Timer `let by` a very small amount of Power to the Bulb causing the Cheap / incompatible Bulbs to Flicker constantly - obviously NOT desirable.



Years ago when the Low Energy Lightbulbs became available I asked Osram and some Years later Phillips whether their Low Energy Bulbs were compatible and on both ocassions I was told that they were - `Because they are well made` - `Beware of the Cheap ones` - this was before the `Dimmable` specification was brought in.

I was told that the cheap versions of the Low Energy Lightbulbs would constantly `Flicker` because the Lightswitch Timers `Leak` a very small amount of power [my description] to the Bulb in the OFF position.

As I would not expect any of the Low Energy Bulbs to have `Lightswitch Timer Compatible` specified - I have mentioned the `Dimmable` specification in my paragraphs / questions.


I hope that this is clearer than what I wrote in my other messages.



Thank You for the Megaman details.


I asked in an earlier reply to telectrix whether LED Bulbs are suitable regarding their High Start Up power for my Home`s Lightswitch Timers - because the Timers have `Quick Blow` Fuses - what do You think ?

Regards,


Chris

 

[Rockingit]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

TBH, I think you're creating a problem here which doesn't exist. Try a good quality LED lamp replacement and see what happens. LED drivers (internal) are far more interested in waveshape than they are voltage, and the triac in a digital switch firing slightly less volts than what is being received in is of little consequence to them.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Which energy efficient lightbulbs [lamps] can i use with digital lightswitch time

TBH, I think you're creating a problem here which doesn't exist. Try a good quality LED lamp replacement and see what happens. LED drivers (internal) are far more interested in waveshape than they are voltage, and the triac in a digital switch firing slightly less volts than what is being received in is of little consequence to them.

"Hello again Rockingit",

I asked about the LED Bulbs because Member telectrix mentioned the `High Start Up current` and I know that the Timers have `Quick Blow` Fuses because I had to get the details from the Manufacturer to be able to obtain spare fuses after one blew with a Bulb and I did not have any spares.

It was the mention of the High Start Up current on LED Bulbs that made Me wonder if that would immediately blow the Fuses ?


I don`t feel that I was `creating a problem that does not exist` - I saw a comment from telectrix which MIGHT have been vitally important regarding NOT using LED Bulbs on my Home`s Lightswitch Timers.


I would have been foolish to NOT ask about this.


Thanks again for your interest and for the technical details about the LED Bulbs and Megaman bulbs.


Regards,

Chris