Discuss Which test applies? Fail "condition report" code3 or Pass PIR code4? in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Just trying to understand if a 15yr old first floor flat, should be refused certificate because no RCD present.

Has PIR code4 been scrapped? Is 'Condition Report' a new beast, if so when does it apply.

The ESC 'Best Practice Guide issue 3', on classification codes for condition reporting, doesn't mention a code4. It gives as an example code3: absence of RCD on circuit not lightly to supply equipment outdoors.

The guide still includes:
It should be borne in mind that, as stated in the introduction to BS 7671, existing installations that have been constructed in accordance with earlier editions of the Standard may not comply with the current edition in every respect, but this does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

When queried, the electricians involved replied:
The property has been tested by us for past few years and the PIR certificate was replaced in 2012 by the condition report and the codes were changed.No RCD protection on any circuit used to be a Code 4 (does not comply with current regulations) was replaced with a Code 3 (improvement recomended). This was on last years certificate. Whilst the flat is not on ground floor and no sockets are deemed to be used outdoors no RCD protection is classed as a code 3, But its is of my opinion that with the flat being rented that all saftey precautions including Rcd protection should be met to ensure the safety of the tennants and it is my disgretion not to issue a satisfactory certificate.

Is this reasonable?
 
EICR replaced the PIR at the start of 2012, and correct yes the codes changed.
The lack of RCD should now be classed as a C3 and should not stop the guy from issuing a satisfactory cert. An unsatisfactory verdict exists only if any C1 or C2 issues arise.
I would be asking this spark for a refund if he is not going to give you a satisfactory cert when there is no reason not to.
I agree however that RCD protection in a rented property is STRONGLY recommended, but this guy can't change the rules because of his own opinions.
 
This is a nonsense and a sign that the guy is full of his own self importance and to make this worse he is misleading and wrong this code 4 on a PIR and a code 3 on a EICR is only stating the bleeding obvious yes there is no RCD but there is no legal obligation to get one fitted if the installation was installed pre 17th and passes all of the tests.

This is a sign that this guy is pretentious plus one day he just might get pulled up by a savvy customer who may just nail him for misleading information yes by all means recommend but not in a way the customer feels they are legally required to do so infact I know of one landlord who is persuing a company for this very thing and he has the law on his side on this so anybody reading this beware what you put on an EICR yep your opinion but not a failure so that you can gain more work
 
Wonder if £390 a time for each 2 bedroom flat might sway his opinion. The letting agents probably also use them for the 10 or so other flats they manage in the same development, they've got hundreds of other flats around Tyneside.
Letting agents should be responsible for preventing false claims rather than just passing them on. Most landlords wouldn't have a clue & I'm no expert (just a bit suspicious).

Guess they're taking the risk of owners claiming their money back. Perhaps we should take them up!
 
£390 for an EICR on a 2 bed flat?
That seems a bit on the high side, tell the letting agents I'll do their Tyneside ones for £300 a pop :)
 
At £390 a time no wonder the guy is pretentious and maybe thats why he may have what I call the God Syndrome where he charges 2-3 times the average and they are paying him so this reassures him that he is God and his word is law.

Spoke to a painter one time and his card said interior decorator so I said whats the difference between that and painter and he said people don't want a painter in the house they want an interior decorator and will pay the money for it so I am a interior decorator
 
The price quoted was for "works/repairs to install rcbo's on all circuits and issue satisfactory cert".
I think there was 6/8 circuits including one for off peak storage heaters.

£95 was held by the letting agent for the inspection.


They also said "If you are unhappy i completly understand and you could if you wanted instruct another company to carry out test and they might issue a satisfactory certificate".

They've not been paid yet but guess they will want paying if we went elsewhere.
 
at the end of the day, he can't refuse a "satisfactory" with a code C3. by all means recommend RCD protection, but a " non satisfactory" is not acceptable.
 
Makes you wonder what else this clown decides is unsafe! what would he do if he came across a board with 3036's in? demand a rewire,when oh when are people going to understand the term good for continued service? how many people get ripped off up and down the country like this,you get all these adverts telling people to use a proper registered spark and some of them don't know what they are doing.
 
Phil the problem is some guys "bag" qualifications such as the 17th and I&T then give them some responsability and they are masters of the universe you only have to see the traffic wardens in Edinburgh to realise what a job can do to a mild mannered guy and on saying that wrong is wrong I always declare to the landlord they are not legally obliged to upgrade to an RCD CU but it would be advisable to budget for it in the future.

And good point on the registered spark bit that means nothing nowadays although I have been asked a couple of times recently if I am qualified and time served so it shows that people are getting more aware
 
at the end of the day, he can't refuse a "satisfactory" with a code C3. by all means recommend RCD protection, but a " non satisfactory" is not acceptable.

If he had gone about it recommending safety improvements, and giving a decent quote, he probably would have got the job.

When you think you're been taking for a ride you just want him nailed! & the letting agents as well if their in collusion.
 
Does the name at the bottom say Nicolas owen? lol
I work for a very large company, they would charge you only a 1/3 of that or less for a test, I could under no circumstances fail a test for the reasons stated, in fact you could report them as that is a scam! I would reccomend RCD protection and thats it. You cannot look at whether its for renting or private
 
Report him to trading standards, there is enough guidance available for him to know what makes satisfactory and unsatisfactory. In the eyes of TS he would be making false claims for profit
 
Sounds to me like £95 for the test, which seems very fair, the rest for work to be done eh? Probably just after the work following the test, even though it's not required.
 

Reply to Which test applies? Fail "condition report" code3 or Pass PIR code4? in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

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