Discuss who can certify? in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

AJ16

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DIY
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Is it poss for another sparks to certify another persons first and 2nd fix in a house extension? My sparks didn't return to get paid after I mentioned certification.
 
off the record, yes you can, in a situation like urs and there not quailified to test and have legged it for some reason, you can call a qualified electrician, to come a look at all the installation/test, although he would have needed to be there during points of the first fix installation/2nd to be able to test it, unless the runaway sparkys were competent, but I don't see why not you can't do this, as its not your fault is it? thats if this/mystatement is true above. correct me if I am wrong, anyone

cheers
 

AJ16

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DIY
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Thanks I'll give him another week then try that as I want to get it all signed off.
I can't understand why he has gone awol. He seemed alright but after I mentioned getting a cert he has not come back like he said he would. He also messed up on the smoke detector cabling but that not too major is it?
 
E

EasyFox

No he or any other spaks can't or more correctly shouldn't because;

1, he cant sign the design(er) section as he hasnt designed the installation.
2, he cant sign the constructor/installer section as he hasnt installed it.
3, he could test if competent to do so, but cant issue the EIC due to 1 & 2 above.
4, part P ....well NICEIC do not allow 3rd party certification or notification (i've asked).
5, No sparks worth their salt will sign off somebody elses work, who knows what or how may be installed behind plaster / under floors

The official line I got fromn NICEIC was

"get the home owner to contact LABC asking if they will accept a PIR from yourself but do not on any account issue an EIC, as you will then become responsible & liable for the installation & any faults/problems the 3rd party installer may have caused/installed. Make the home owner aware that they may be asked questions by LABC with regard to non compliance to building regulations & they will have to probably pay the LABC notification costs"
 
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Cirrus

I get it done all the time as I can't sign off for myself (although I sign off for my company) and just pay someone to sign my work off. As long as they test it thoroughly it's fine. This bloody job is too full of pointless regulations that didn't exist until recently and it had done nothing but dtive the cowboys underground!
 
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wayne

you can get 3rd party inspection and test ,we have done it when other firms have gone under,
a covering letter will have to suffice with regards a lack of designer ,constructor,installer
 
A

avagohero

just be carefull guys who ever signs the work off, is then responsable for the whole job and if anything happens and it goes to court it will be your neck on the line. i personally would never sign off anyone else's work.
 
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wayne

large companies have dedicated test depts they're signing off all the time
as everyone is warning tread carefully
 
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Shakey

I quite agree with EasyFox on this one

Yes many firms carry out 3rd party inspect and test (done a few myself), and where the designer and installer have signed the EIC, its quite acceptable. What isnt acceptable is to issue a PIR in place of an EIC!

And Cirrus, why cant you sign off yourself? And they can test it all they want, but which bit of the test would reveal such things as two lengths of 2.5 TW&E twisted together with a bit of tape around them under the floorboards? Or joined together with a connector block embedded in the wall? etc etc

Bottom line: covering letters aint worth the paper they are written on, because:- The sparks who signs off as designer and installer on the EIC, will be signing against "I, being responsible for......"

and that's it - he/she is then responsible. Would i sign off a sparks that done a runner?

Not a chance
 
Is it poss for another sparks to certify another persons first and 2nd fix in a house extension? My sparks didn't return to get paid after I mentioned certification.
I understand all your posts about testing etc, but what about for this one off sitution this person is in. Its not his fault, list what you think he should do.
 

AJ16

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DIY
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
thanks fellas I'll wait a while longer meanwhile may enquire anonymously at Building Control to see what the options are. I have a pretty good photo record of the wiring, so another sparks might do it if push comes to shove.
As far as I know it's ok but then that's not my area of expertise. Does it sound right though for the feed to the upstairs lights to pass through the wall box of a light switch with lives connected to common and the neutrals joined with a connector block?
 
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Shakey

I understand all your posts about testing etc, but what about for this one off sitution this person is in. Its not his fault, list what you think he should do.
But that's the problem Luke, its a one off for this poor chap, but common place for the working sparks. I personally have refused to do this a number of ocassions

He can call another sparks in, and the other sparks may sign it, but his question is 'Is it possible for another sparks to sign it off'. Well yes its possible, but the sparks will be accepting full responsibility for the work.
 
M

MacSparky

Does it sound right though for the feed to the upstairs lights to pass through the wall box of a light switch with lives connected to common and the neutrals joined with a connector block?
Sounds like its just been connected 2 plate method, as far as i am aware its perfectly acceptable.
Regards
MacSparky:)
 
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Shakey

i agree with Macsparky on that one - doesnt break any rules that i see
 
C

Cirrus

And Cirrus, why cant you sign off yourself? And they can test it all they want, but which bit of the test would reveal such things as two lengths of 2.5 TW&E twisted together with a bit of tape around them under the floorboards? Or joined together with a connector block embedded in the wall? etc etc
I sign off for my company which isNIC registered but personally, I am not so don't sign off any of my own works as it would still mean notifying LABC which would cost me as much (if not more) than paying someone to sign off on my behalf
 
I agree with everthing so far. I've come across this myself a number af times and have refused to certify the installation but this guy is in a sticky position! What about this, tell me if it's an option. AJ16 gets a spark out to test the installation and fill out an EIC but NOT sign it, he himself signs the cert and then gets Building control out to inspect the paper work and sign it off. I understand that this would mean paying out twice but is it possible?
 
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Shakey

I agree with everthing so far. I've come across this myself a number af times and have refused to certify the installation but this guy is in a sticky position! What about this, tell me if it's an option. AJ16 gets a spark out to test the installation and fill out an EIC but NOT sign it, he himself signs the cert and then gets Building control out to inspect the paper work and sign it off. I understand that this would mean paying out twice but is it possible?
Dazza, everythings possible! Though about this myself. So lets say the guy who's property it is signs the EIC as the designer and installer. Now if he called ME out to test, i would check the EIC has been signed (and lets be honest, when do you check the credentials of the guy signing?????), i would then thoroughly inspect and test and sign off the wotk that i had done (ie the inspect and test)

There would now be a fully completed EIC. I would not be liable for hidden mistakes because i am only inspecting and testing. The householder takes responsibility for the installation work, which, quite frankly, is his choice.

I did a PIR a while ago. I KNOW the guy had changed the CU himself, and done some refurb work and i'm pretty sure he wouldnt know Part P from a garden pea, so i am almost certain he didnt involve the LABC. Did i care ? Of course not - because i was only commenting on the installation as I found it - not on what was done to get it to that point!

there's more than one way to skin a cat

(who actually skins cats? and why would they need multiple methods anyway???)
 

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