Why is Solar so Great?

[KDM]

I'm poised to spend £11,500 on a 4kW installation. Here in NI, we still have top-end ROCs and the installer ran some figures for us. He projects an annual return from the installation of around £2,000.

We even have a loan option which means we'd only earn around £1,000 for the first 5 years, so it wouldn't cost us a penny.

Does this seem likely? I understand that the government pays us for generating electricity even if we use it ourselves and we get to sell back anything we don't use, because they have to reduce the carbon footprint, but if this thing is such a no-brainer, why doesn't EVERYONE do it? It's money for nothing, apparently.

I just have this little voice in my head saying "...too good to be true..."

 

[Gavin A]

Sounds like you're being ripped off to me, no way should 4kWp cost £11.5k

it is a no brainer, but only at the appropriate installation costs per kWp, get another quote.

 

[SRE]

I'm moving to N Ireland!

 

[KDM]

Two different responses. One apparently good, the other apparently bad!

No answer to the question, though. The nice man at the bank is prepared to lend me the money, with no background checks or the like, so I assume he's already quite certain he;s going to get his money back. Why is this allegedly such a sure thing? If it's such a great deal, why doesn't everyone do it?

I'm curious to know if the projected returns are "typical"?

I had spotted that a 4kW system can be purchased in Tesco for 7 grand, but I'm not sure how comparable it is. Just checking now to see if it's available here. I see another local installer quoting 8 grand for a 5kW system. It's difficult to see what portion of the work they carry out and what portion of the arranging I need to do.

 

[SibertSolar]

OP - do you know of a company called Solmatix?

 

[SRE]

Yes it works, no it's not too good to be true otherwise at it's peak 20k homes a week wouldn't have been installing and like Gavin says get some more quotes. We're a few miles East of you and since Nov 2010 I've generated 7352 kwh from my 4kwp system and we're ESE. I also have it on 2 or the houses I rent to tenants and even though they get the free electric it's still worth while to me.

Personally I wouldn't take a loan with a pv company I'd be going to the bank if I needed one and either taking a low cost loan or adding it to my mortgage if I had one. It may even be worth seeing if you can swap it between zero interest credit cards if you can pay it off pretty quickly.

 

[KDM]

OP - do you know of a company called Solmatix?

Well, I do now! Thanks!

 

[KDM]

Personally I wouldn't take a loan with a pv company ...

Sound advice. The cash is there and this looks to me to be a better investment than an ISA!

 

[SibertSolar]

They're in Lisburn, talk to Richard Bartlett

 

[TedM]

NI pay 4 x ROCs for a PV system up to 50kW. That's 17.64p per kWh generated, plus 5.41p for metered export, plus whatever you save by avoiding import.

A 4 kW system might generate 3600 kWh a year so that's £635 with maybe 75% exported is another £146 and 25% avoided import at maybe another £130. Total £911. Possibly £100 better than that if you take steps to reduce export and use more on site.

That's a long way short of £2000.

 

[KDM]

...That's a long way short of £2000.

This is all good stuff. One concern is that a neighbour who got it done was generating 200W yesterday because NI ain't the sunniest of places. The figures were difficult to accept, but the salesman insisted they were pessimistic.

I'm trying to justify why this might be 3-5K more than other installers. Do all systems come with HELMS and thermostatic monitors on hot water tanks, temperature sensors in living rooms and remote monitoring / control?

Will all this kind of gubbins be helpful or not?

 

[SRE]

Helms - rubbish. One of the jobs we lost was to someone who had paid 2k extra for Helms and another 500 for a voltage optimiser when his voltage was at 235v. He wouldn't listen to us and I was intrigued by helms. I've been testing one since July and it's massively overpriced even at trade price, we're forever changing batteries in the controls/thermostats and when we were on holiday and needed to change the setting because we'd been delayed we'd had a power cut, the Internet was off and we couldn't change the settings. To give you an idea British Gas sell a similar gadget to their customers for £200 (without the solar bit).

We test everything before we sell to customers and needless to say we're not selling these. We challenged the Helms figures they provide, with the manufacturers for months and didn't get anywhere. In the end they had to concede that their oil figures were based on anecdotal evidence from 2 houses with oil at least one of which was employed by the firm. Not impressed!

 

[KDM]

Ah. The "voltage optimiser" was another thing included in my quote. According to my little plug in monitor, my juice is sitting at 241V. The salesman says this can fluctuate quite a bit.

So, I've seen enough similar evidence to suggest that these PV installations will pay for themselves, although it might take 10 years rather than the projected 5 years. The question still remains: why are there not more of them?

 

[SRE]

Come onto the mainland - you'll see them everywhere. We get your weather usually right after you and there's loads round where we are. It's a no -brainer!

 

[trev]

The question still remains: why are there not more of them?

Probably because people still see it as an expensive toy rather than an investment

 

[KDM]

Helms - rubbish.

So, what alternatives are typical? On eh installation I saw, HELMS was how you see what you're generating.

...their oil figures were based on anecdotal evidence ...

Ah, yes. The old 40% saving on oil because I would heat the water in the tank off the PV rather than the oil.

 

[SRE]

You could read your generation meter which will be next to your consumer unit, if you get an SMA inverter you can download software and read it with bluetooth, pay between £60 and £150 for an extra gadget to monitor your generation on a portable meter (quite useful if you're nerdy about things like that) install an Immersun for around £500 on top of your installation - this is much better than the Helms stuff. You need to find a decent installer near you - it takes time but keep looking

- - - Updated - - -

You could read your generation meter which will be next to your consumer unit, if you get an SMA inverter you can download software and read it with bluetooth, pay between £60 and £150 for an extra gadget to monitor your generation on a portable meter (quite useful if you're nerdy about things like that) install an Immersun for around £500 on top of your installation - this is much better than the Helms stuff. You need to find a decent installer near you - it takes time but keep looking

 

[HandySparks]

So, I've seen enough similar evidence to suggest that these PV installations will pay for themselves, although it might take 10 years rather than the projected 5 years. The question still remains: why are there not more of them?

Solar PV isn't like most other 'investments'; you can't readily sell the asset and get your capital back. So, using your figure of 10 years, you're really only making 'profit' in year 11 and onwards, whereas most other investments produce growth or interest from year 1. It's more like an annuity, really; commit your capital and get an income in return. Many people don't want that level of commitment to such a long term 'investment'. I'm not saying it's wrong for everyone, but it needs proper consideration, especially if you have to borrow to fund it.

 

[AndyOz]

KDM

First up I have nothing to do with the solar industry/trade.

I do however have a 4kW system on my roof.

My advice to you would be spend time reading this forum, I wish I had before having mine installed. Undoubtably I would of ended up with a better system. Think of it as an investment for the next 25 years.

 

[Gavin A]

This is all good stuff. One concern is that a neighbour who got it done was generating 200W yesterday because NI ain't the sunniest of places. The figures were difficult to accept, but the salesman insisted they were pessimistic.

I'm trying to justify why this might be 3-5K more than other installers. Do all systems come with HELMS and thermostatic monitors on hot water tanks, temperature sensors in living rooms and remote monitoring / control?

Will all this kind of gubbins be helpful or not?

it's 3-5k more because you're being ripped off, pure and simple. I really can't work out how to put it across any clearer, and don't understand why you're still confused about the concept.

tell this company to do one, then do some research and find a decent quality installer who will charge a sensible market rate for a decent quality solar PV system, then ask them if they offer any extras and what price each will be - it will not add up to 3-5k.