Discuss Wiring Hot Tub in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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hutch6447

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Benfleet, Essex
Hi been over to view job and its a 3 wire configuration for the hot tub which is already wired in, now the customer say's it keeps tripping when I looked the hot tub was wired into the garage consumer unit.

Now I have limited experience on hot tubs but I thought it had to go on its own circuit and have a gfci circuit breaker to stop false tripping but as I said this is just wired into garage consumer unit, customer said it worked for a while but now constantly trips.

I have had a look around and there are no loose connections or shorts going on.

Has anyone got experience that would help?
 
E

Engineer54

What do you mean by ''3 Wire Configuration'' and are you saying that the hot tub is presently without any RCD protection??? Oh ....And what is actually tripping??
 
G

Guest123

You need to clarify a couple of things as by your terminology it sounds like an American set up???
 
G

Guest123

Also what exactly is tripping.....MCB, RCD etc???

Do you have test instruments??
 
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hutch6447

Regular EF Member
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Benfleet, Essex
Yes it is RCD protected sorry just called it that because of the info about it on net, its the circuit breaker that is tripping. Has anyone got a wiring diagram for a typical British hot tub and could it be the heating motor that is tripping it?
 

needasparks

Electrician's Arms
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If it is the MCB Or circuit breaker you refer and not an rcd then it would appear to be over current. There are a few things that may be the reason but all of which do require a test meter of some description to make a diagnosis. sounds like time for ringing a local sparks to give it a going over for you.

Edit

Just seen your post as a sparks. don't understand why your asking this.
 
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stef

Regular EF Member
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576
Location
Gosport
Could be the circulation pump, could be a heater element, could be a faulty cable, wiring ...
 
G

Guest123

Yes it is RCD protected sorry just called it that because of the info about it on net, its the circuit breaker that is tripping. Has anyone got a wiring diagram for a typical British hot tub and could it be the heating motor that is tripping it?

Well, if it is RCD protected and it is the circuit breaker that is tripping then it leads me to overloading or L-N short circuit.
 
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hutch6447

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Benfleet, Essex
Yeah cable is 6mm cable and its on a 20A breaker, know cable will easily take a 32a MCB its wired into the garage consumer unit which has its own rcd ( this gfci ******** was on all the instructions and downloads he gave me.

Going to run a dedicated circuit in 6mm cable there is a spare way at the main board so it will be rcd protected and put on a 32 amp Mcb but before this is there anyway that the hot tub can be tested to see if it is the heating element that is tripping it?
 

stef

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Well, does it trip straight away? Can you switch off the heaters, does it still trip? Can you switch off the pump, does it still trip? If that is so then ckeck the supply cable, as Lenny suspects a dead short circuit, this might very well be the case.
 
G

Guest123

Yeah cable is 6mm cable and its on a 20A breaker, know cable will easily take a 32a MCB its wired into the garage consumer unit which has its own rcd ( this gfci ******** was on all the instructions and downloads he gave me.

Going to run a dedicated circuit in 6mm cable there is a spare way at the main board so it will be rcd protected and put on a 32 amp Mcb but before this is there anyway that the hot tub can be tested to see if it is the heating element that is tripping it?
I cant help but feel you are short changing us with info here.

Do you have the manufacturers instructions that accompanied the hot tub???

If so does it give the maximum design current current for the hot tub and does it recommend an overcurrent device for it??? Does the currently installed device match up to requirements??? Is it infact the RCD (GFCI) that trips???

Can you shed a bit more light please.
 

Strima

Electrician's Arms
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St Neots
Did some of these hot tub not require their own TT putting in as well?
 

needasparks

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Measuring the resistance of the heater and clamping it if need be may shed light.
Your saying a three wire system do you mean the supply to it (inc earth) or the feed splits into two live feeds with a shared nuetral (making3)
 

stef

Regular EF Member
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576
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Gosport
Hard water, the friendly hot tub repair man suggests Calgon:wink5: seriously, probably corroded to death, causing a short circuit to earth.
 

needasparks

Electrician's Arms
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ok yes happy with that got a feeling that the hot tub was an import.
TBH i have not come across a uk made one yet, all seem to italian or spanish or american
Took me a while wire one up once that the instructing were in italian worked out black was live and white was neutral. so much for harmonised colours.
 
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hutch6447

Regular EF Member
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163
Location
Benfleet, Essex
will try to flush the pumps out then that sounds good other than that there is no short in circuit, tested the sub circuit run to garage board and its fine tested individual circuit and is fine.
 
E

Engineer54

So what the Manufacturers name of this Hot Tub, and the model number?? Perhaps then, ...someone can then give you far better information which is based on actual data... lol!!!

What is the floor made of, which this Hot Tub stands on, Bare ground, Grass, Concrete, Paving tiles, Wooden decking etc??
 
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hutch6447

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Messages
163
Location
Benfleet, Essex
Right been over to see the hot tub myself and what he told me is ******** he got of the internet and what he thought was tripping!

This is the situation with the Hot Tub:

Make: Balboa Water Group
Ran from garage consumer unit from main board in kitchen via a 50amp mcb to the garage consumer unit which also has 50amp mcb (so no discrimination) then to an isolating switch for the hot tub then to hot tub.

It is fully earthed and is protected by a 30 mA rcd, performed ramp test and ittrips at 23.0 mA.

It is ran in 10mm Armoured cable so plenty big enough.

Hot tub runs fine and starts up you can select the 2 modes of bubbles and it works fine all the lights are on it works fine, when the thermostat clicks the heating on, it shows the light and stays on for about 30 seconds then trips the Rcd.
 

Strima

Electrician's Arms
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3,626
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St Neots
Sounds like the heating element is on its way out. Is it new or second hand? How old is it?
 
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hutch6447

Regular EF Member
Messages
163
Location
Benfleet, Essex
Hot Tub Tripping

Right been over to see the hot tub myself and what he told me is ******** he got of the internet and what he thought was tripping!

This is the situation with the Hot Tub:

Make: Balboa Water Group
Ran from garage consumer unit from main board in kitchen via a 50amp mcb to the garage consumer unit which also has 50amp mcb (so no discrimination) then to an isolating switch for the hot tub then to hot tub.

It is fully earthed and is protected by a 30 mA rcd, performed ramp test and ittrips at 23.0 mA.

It is ran in 10mm Armoured cable so plenty big enough.

Hot tub runs fine and starts up you can select the 2 modes of bubbles and it works fine all the lights are on it works fine, when the thermostat clicks the heating on, it shows the light and stays on for about 30 seconds then trips the Rcd.

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/electrical-wiring-theories-electrical-regulations/62192-wiring-hot-tub-2.html#ixzz24TiygYrk
 

topquark

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Re: Hot Tub Tripping

Sounds like the element is on it's way mate, only tripping once it expands a bit.
 

telectrix

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Re: Hot Tub Tripping

oh, no, have to agree again. think i'm going to have another heart attack.
 
G

Guest55

heating element , as mentioned , is toast.
and......
GFCI = ground fault circuit interupter = rcd ;-)

i've had a flick through the USA wiring regs or National Electric Code as its known , and boy is it a heavy read lol , 3 times thicker the uk 17th edition.
i lead a sheltered life.
 
G

Guest55

Re: Hot Tub Tripping

why have you started another thread with an identical post ?
bad form to be honest.
 

stef

Regular EF Member
Messages
576
Location
Gosport
Re: Hot Tub Tripping

Right been over to see the hot tub myself and what he told me is ******** he got of the internet and what he thought was tripping!

This is the situation with the Hot Tub:

Make: Balboa Water Group
Ran from garage consumer unit from main board in kitchen via a 50amp mcb to the garage consumer unit which also has 50amp mcb (so no discrimination) then to an isolating switch for the hot tub then to hot tub.

It is fully earthed and is protected by a 30 mA rcd, performed ramp test and ittrips at 23.0 mA.

It is ran in 10mm Armoured cable so plenty big enough.

Hot tub runs fine and starts up you can select the 2 modes of bubbles and it works fine all the lights are on it works fine, when the thermostat clicks the heating on, it shows the light and stays on for about 30 seconds then trips the Rcd.

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/electrical-wiring-theories-electrical-regulations/62192-wiring-hot-tub-2.html#ixzz24TiygYrk
Yep, 30 second delay till the thermo controller ( West? Eurotherm? Omron? Something like that) finished initializing itself, then the heater contactor kicks in
then the faulty heater trips the RCD.

Hard water, scale on e heater, can't dissipate the heat to the water, expands, cracks, ...
 

Marvo

Admin and gender confused
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Two separate threads on the same question is going to cause confusion for those who are trying to assist you. I've merged both threads into one for you.
 
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