Wiring light fittings without loop in connectors.

[gpz900jim]

When a customer wants a light fitting put up to replace a standard ceiling rose, what I would normally do would be to pull the 3 wires back into the ceiling void, join up with a junction box, and drop a tail back through the ceiling for connection to the light fitting. I understand that this method is no longer acceptable as the junction box needs to be accessible for maintenance purposes. In a ground floor ceiling, its deemed to be inaccessible once the upstairs carpet is replaced ( according to the Electrical Safety Council guide to electrical installation standards.) I wonder if anyone could advise me of a way to do a job like this that will comply with regulations? Cheers.

 

[Paul.M]

Use a wago junction box therefore its accessible from the rose. (correct me if I'm wrong lads) but I believe this is fine with the regs under "new type of fittings" ill find the reg number later.

 

[Guest123]

Mainteneance free joint boxes & terminals are the answer, such as the ones made by Hager, Ashley, Helacon & Wagobox etc.

Having said that you will need quite a large hole to fit the box into the ceiling, maybe too big to get good fixings for some light fitting types. You could just use the maintenance free connectors themselves wthout the boxes as the terminals will be in the base of the light fitting anyway.

 

[Paul.M]

Reg 559.11.6 says you can use "clamping devices". And reg 416.2.4 states in notes that a ceiling rose is not classed as a barrier. In my eyes that's accessible junction.

 

[i=p/u]

connector blocks and tape them up, never seen 1 of them wago's b4.. ive seen it done in loads of houses..... i know probably wrong but....

 

[Paul.M]

Never tape up choc blocks! Use the correct junction box/connector for the job. Look at Wagobox Home of The Maintenance Free Junction Box (other brands are available in all good electrical wholesalers).

 

[Adam W]

I find you can usually get all the wires in the fitting; most even provide an 'extra' terminal for the loop.
If I came along later to find a fault I would rather have all the wires visible than spend ages trying to work out how it was wired only to realise there was a JB hidden somewhere above the ceiling.

 

[IQ Electrical]

connector blocks and tape them up, never seen 1 of them wago's b4.. ive seen it done in loads of houses..... i know probably wrong but....

But what?

 

[telectrix]

you have to replace the choc block that comes with the fitting (as you can't get 3 cable ends in to one terminal) with a bigger one. connect up and find that there is not room in the fitting for the larger terminal block. happy days.

 

[Paul.M]

I find you can usually get all the wires in the fitting; most even provide an 'extra' terminal for the loop.
If I came along later to find a fault I would rather have all the wires visible than spend ages trying to work out how it was wired only to realise there was a JB hidden somewhere above the ceiling.

I think the OP is saying he can't do it with the terminals on the ceiling rose and looking for an alternative. Wago etc joint box would be a good alternative. Wouldn't put both together has you have said, it could lead to confusion.

 

[Adam W]

In a move I probably should have made earlier i read the title: "Wiring light fittings without loop in connectors".
Yes, I would use a single channel of terminal block, or wago, but inside the fitting if at all possible.

I'd only make a maintenance-free junction above the ceiling as an absolute last resort, and then I'd try to leave a diagram or note in the light fitting.

 

[poirot]

Ashley rock do a surface mounted M/Trunk entry pattrice that you can fit a ceiling rose to, also good for fitting most light fittings, provides plenty of room for connections, nice and safe! other makes are available but can be hard to find in some wholesalers. Always keep a few on the van.

 

[ezzzekiel]

as stated most are too big to fit up into existing hole or theres a joist in the way

 

[Amp David]

you have to replace the choc block that comes with the fitting (as you can't get 3 cable ends in to one terminal) with a bigger one. connect up and find that there is not room in the fitting for the larger terminal block. happy days.

Then the hammer comes out to knock a hole in the ceiling to put the JB!

I always find the tough part is trying to hold the fitting whilst wring it.

 

[gpz900jim]

thanks, those wago boxes look to be a good piece of kit.

 

[One_of_them]

does it not count as accessible as the fitting can always be taken down to maintain the JB??

anyways I dont know what these are like as i've never tried them

Click Flow 16 Amp Push-in Connector

or

Ashley J804 Maintenance Free Junction Box 20A 4 Terminal

 

[ezzzekiel]

i tried the click flow and found them a little fiddly, the ashley are pretty good but bit expensive in my opinion

 

[Amp David]

Would agree regarding the click flows being fiddly. If you're going to faff around with them you may aswell use a few wagos in a small eneclosure.

 

[DurhamSparky]

ah wago!!! reminds me!! need to reorder some more yellow ones!!

 

[gaulty]

U not just crimp the cable loops?