Discuss Would this have been allowed? in the Electrical Testing & PAT Testing Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rockingit

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
4,214
Location
Somerset
I was doing a bunch of very dull office pat testing yesterday, 90% IT so hardly anything to do. It suddenly occured to me that as I could see everything bit of kit fully to be able to verify the visual condition, and I knew eveything was operable, if I just tested the via the plug on the end of each 6 way extension that they were all hanging from, I could effectively do 3 whole machines with one push of the button. I didn't, but I could have.

Right or wrong?
 

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,313
Location
Edinburgh
Well you are meant to test seperate items but as I have said before clarification is need as we have "PAT" testers who cannot explain how a class II equipment test is done ie the tester shorts out the L&N so what is it referencing to ? as they say I just set the tester to class II and push the button to be honest I thought the H&S review would give us some answers but instead it was a sabre rattling exercise to contain the PAT companies who were out of control. Whether you are right or wrong does not matter as you are the one who signs that you have done it as per the COPs
 
M

moospark

Did a call centre last year, about 2 football pitches big, over 3 floors. Started testing every lead individually, no chance. test in batches I think is o.k. Obviously any batch comes in low then start going individual, I spent 9 weeks on that job, back shift, in bloody Sunderland ! How many fails? 1! and that was visual because some one had slammed a door over a lead. still it paid canny at a thin time......
 

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,313
Location
Edinburgh
I dont envy you I do PAT testing as part of my business and it works out to be 20 items a month and thats enough for me but 9 weeks naa no thanks
 
Last edited:

darkwood

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
13,285
Location
West Yorkshire
I cant see how you could do it this way as test sheets have earth bond resistance tests, functional load tests with leakage and sub-leakage columns which require a value not a tick or cross, multi-testing as you suggest would give false readings, i also have a software package that graphs out results and compares the reading from previous years so as to highlight trends in insulation breakdown and earthing issues which may still pass but show a impending failure.
Its an area where i feel you can't really cut corners or your results wont be true and as your recording ohms and M-ohms values it can only be done 1 item at a time.
 

trev

Regular EF Member
Did a call centre last year, about 2 football pitches big, over 3 floors. Started testing every lead individually, no chance. test in batches I think is o.k. Obviously any batch comes in low then start going individual, I spent 9 weeks on that job, back shift, in bloody Sunderland ! How many fails? 1! and that was visual because some one had slammed a door over a lead. still it paid canny at a thin time......
9 Weeks pat testing on back shift in Sunderland?
Could life get any worse? At least you're done with it now mate:)
 

darkwood

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
13,285
Location
West Yorkshire
also to consider is your tester will do an earth bond test if you have multiple items plugged in and parallel paths its possible to miss an item that failed as it won't be seen by the tester.
 
OP
Rockingit

Rockingit

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
4,214
Location
Somerset
Maybe I should have clarified - because I do so little PAT testing (got the cert, btw) I only ever use my MFT for testing as it's just not worth my while to buy a dedicated tester - so you know when you do an IR L/N > E that it's going to get everything commoned together.

I admire the concept behind tracking and graphs and things - but honestly tell me, what customer is really interested? They're just interested in a green sticker showing on every plug top.
 

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,313
Location
Edinburgh
I use to say soory its not worth me doing it but it started to affect the business so I tooled up and so far it will pay for its self in the first year although now that I am into it I despair with all the smoke and mirrors that surround it and by just how little guys who have been doing it for years know about it
 
M

moospark

All I.T class 2, so I.R. and visual only really, no earth bond test and sealed plugs, I could so easily have just stickered the lot, but I didn't. When I did the 2377, there was a bloke going out to Afganistan (non spark) his point was it would be pretty bad to dodge bullets all day, and then get fried sticking some toast on. Sure I.T. a bit daft 'cos you are testing at 250v which is pretty much operating current, but on a building site? yeah, you have a duty to do it right. Still laugh every time I see level 3 on that cert though!
Yes Trev. I am a Geordie, I dont have to tell you how hard.
 

darkwood

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
13,285
Location
West Yorkshire
Maybe I should have clarified - because I do so little PAT testing (got the cert, btw) I only ever use my MFT for testing as it's just not worth my while to buy a dedicated tester - so you know when you do an IR L/N > E that it's going to get everything commoned together.

I admire the concept behind tracking and graphs and things - but honestly tell me, what customer is really interested? They're just interested in a green sticker showing on every plug top.
It changes it a bit that its a rare one off for you but if your using MFT how can you test computers etc which have to be done on reduced safe currents so not to damage the electronics, and although i know your very competent in what you do just be weary that you dont get yourself cornered, it only takes someone to get a shock off something you tested and you wont stand a chance in court as you haven't got or done any kind of industry recognised training course ... its like anything it might be easy to understand and do but without the right paperwork behind you then your an open target in this compensation culture.

Id get a basic cheaper Pass/fail tester in your case as these are aimed at your usage level but because they are set testing voltages and current it will fail things like longer extension leads even though they would normally pass on a programmable PAT tester, and yes totally agree its quite a fancy over the top programme but its starting to pay for itself as i do alot of machine tools and it can see trends on drills and grinders that are due to fail, its impressed the customers and avoided tool failure with a pre-emptive service of any tools showing signs.

Edit.... ignore most of this just re-read and you have a cert.... so mostly pointless waffle :)
 
Last edited:

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,313
Location
Edinburgh
The thing is in a house I&T you link the L&N together and then test to the earth but if you dont hook on the earth you will always get a clear reading so the same applies to class II yep I get the put your probe on to the metal parts ie the the chuck of a drill or the metal of a heater that has the class II mark on it but what about the all plastic hoover.

PS and dont say I dunnow I just set it to classII and press the button
 
A

Adam W

As already mentioned you'd need to do the earth continuity tests separately anyway, but yes, theoretically you can 'bunch test' multiple items the same as IR'ing a building. If all the items pass you could just record >200MΩ for all of them. If one passes or they all have low IR bringing down the total, you'd have to test individually.

I've sometimes considered just plugging all the appliances in and doing IR at the incomer. Provided all the appliances pass you could do all the appliances in the building with one push of a button. Sadly I don't think that would work.
 
M

moospark

Aye, loads of orange, it was the EDF energy callcentre in Doxford Park, funny apart from the obvious footy bit, they all admitted that Sunderland was a hole, and they prefered toon for a night out and hospital treatment? that was pretty much a year ago. presently doing a school re-furb for Kier in Forrest hall, lush, I get what I say I need to do the job properly, No pressure to cut costs/corners, lots of on site responsibility (i.e. use some common sense), in short a bit of respect, anybody remember that? So maybe things might be on the turn for the better. Heaton based by the way Trev.
 
OP
Rockingit

Rockingit

Mentor
Electrician's Arms
Trainee Access
Messages
4,214
Location
Somerset
It changes it a bit that its a rare one off for you but if your using MFT how can you test computers etc which have to be done on reduced safe currents so not to damage the electronics, and although i know your very competent in what you do just be weary that you dont get yourself cornered, it only takes someone to get a shock off something you tested and you wont stand a chance in court as you haven't got or done any kind of industry recognised training course ... its like anything it might be easy to understand and do but without the right paperwork behind you then your an open target in this compensation culture.
Anything that may be susceptible to damage just gets tested on 250 and/or L-N shorted (which is how I was shown and taught when I did the course). Just want to emphasise that I was only considering this concept for class II items where you have no earth continuity to do. There were also a bunch of electric heaters in the same office and rest assured I got suitably dirty trying to turn them upside down to find an earthing point!!
 

Geordie Spark

Regular EF Member
Messages
11,257
Location
Lost in the ozone - again !!
Aye, loads of orange, it was the EDF energy callcentre in Doxford Park, funny apart from the obvious footy bit, they all admitted that Sunderland was a hole, and they prefered toon for a night out and hospital treatment? that was pretty much a year ago. presently doing a school re-furb for Kier in Forrest hall, lush, I get what I say I need to do the job properly, No pressure to cut costs/corners, lots of on site responsibility (i.e. use some common sense), in short a bit of respect, anybody remember that? So maybe things might be on the turn for the better. Heaton based by the way Trev.
Heaton?? ........... I remember when Jimi Hendrix lived & busked there. :17:
 
M

moospark

Whaat, I know me local rock lore, and Chas Chandler did live round the corner at some point, but hadn't heard that one! When you say remember, you mean you were a dude at the time? Cool. Me Mother was a bar maid at the club a go go, stayed in to wash her bee-hive the night the Stones played cos' she reckoned they weren't going any where.
 

Geordie Spark

Regular EF Member
Messages
11,257
Location
Lost in the ozone - again !!
Whaat, I know me local rock lore, and Chas Chandler did live round the corner at some point, but hadn't heard that one! When you say remember, you mean you were a dude at the time? Cool. Me Mother was a bar maid at the club a go go, stayed in to wash her bee-hive the night the Stones played cos' she reckoned they weren't going any where.
Oh aye ....... Aahm an aad gadgee noo man !!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Permanent unswitched live colour?

  • Brown

    Votes: 99 72.3%
  • Black

    Votes: 38 27.7%

Electrician Talk

Top