Help Understanding EICR

[1987FayJane]

I would greatly appreciate if someone could help me understand the following outcomes on an EICR. I am being advised it needs a total rewire but I am a layman.

The wiring is approx 30. Years old. 4 circuits, 2 x lights, one mains (incl kitchen), one for living room.

We will be renovating the ground floor of the property including the kitchen.

Observations

• no RCD protection to any circuit (C2)
• Damage to electrical wiring accessories (C2)
• Burnt connections in the back of kitchen sockets (possible cause of overloading or loose connections) (C2)
• immersion heater has been rewired on the same circuit as the sockets - risk of overloading (C2)
• no CPC continuity to circuit 2 ring main (F1)
• unable to locate water bonding (F1)
• no smoke alarms (C3)
• no surge protection fitted to consumer unit (C3)

The sections of the report on the EICR as C2 are

• 4.13
• 4.17
• 4.18
• 5.3
• 5.5
• 5.12
• 5.18
• 6.1

Thank you

 

[timhoward]

Can you post the whole report here, but remove the name of the company that did the inspection?
There's a best-practise guide from electrical safety first called best practise guide 4 that is worth you acquiring.

Generally wiring from 30 years ago would normally be in serviceable condition. The full report should help us gain a better picture. The reasons for requiring a rewire are usually
a) dangerous wiring that is at end of life or has been damaged. Some of the tests on the report will help determine this
b) not enough points in the right places or not enough circuits to cope with modern demands
c) revonations are happening and it's a good opportunity

Quick thoughts about the other items:

• no RCD protection to any circuit (C2) See Best Practise Guide 4
• Damage to electrical wiring accessories (C2) Not expensive to replace
• Burnt connections in the back of kitchen sockets (possible cause of overloading or loose connections) (C2) If the wiring is serviceable the accessories can be changed.
• immersion heater has been rewired on the same circuit as the sockets - risk of overloading (C2) This is a reasonable comment in my view.
• no CPC continuity to circuit 2 ring main (F1) This should be a C2, FI would be for if he couldn't complete the test. This needs sorting out.
• unable to locate water bonding (F1) The water pipes can be tested to see if it is likely they are bonded.
• no smoke alarms (C3) This should be a NOTE as it doesn't relate to electrical safety.
• no surge protection fitted to consumer unit (C3) Fair enough

 

[1987FayJane]

Please see below message for report

 

[1987FayJane]

Can you post the whole report here, but remove the name of the company that did the inspection?
There's a best-practise guide from electrical safety first called best practise guide 4 that is worth you acquiring.

Generally wiring from 30 years ago would normally be in serviceable condition. The full report should help us gain a better picture. The reasons for requiring a rewire are usually
a) dangerous wiring that is at end of life or has been damaged. Some of the tests on the report will help determine this
b) not enough points in the right places or not enough circuits to cope with modern demands
c) revonations are happening and it's a good opportunity

Quick thoughts about the other items:

Thank you - I attach the report below.

 

[buzzlightyear]

is the property rented out ?

 

[1987FayJane]

is the property rented out ?

No it is not - it is a house purchase

 

[buzzlightyear]

No it is not

easy

no RCD protection to any circuit (C2)

on the test sheet shows 61008-1 .is in not a rcd .
can you post a pic of the consumer unit .

 

[timhoward]

Hmmm. Well he can't have it both ways - his test results actually portray the fixed wiring as being in excellent condition. (The insulation resistance tests for all circuits are all >200M.). If the overall condition is as bad as he says I'd be very surprised to get those readings. The discrepancy between the overall comments and the test results make me wonder if those tests actually happened or the readings were invented.

I also noticed 4.17 - RCD's required for fault protection. This should not be a C2. Fault protection is covered by other methods on your installation and the tests results show it will work. I worry when I see this as it doesn't build confidence.

Also, he's listed type AC RCD protection for each circuit. This is very confusing.

So far, at a minimum and obviously without seeing it I'd be saying that
-the upstairs socket circuit needs fixing
-some accessories may need changing
-a new circuit should be run for the immersion heater
I'd also be advising a new consumer unit is installed but that doesn't mean what is there isn't safe. It's just that modern units do lots more to protect people from the dangers of electricity.

Additionally the insulation resistance results need confirming (ideally by someone else) as you are relying on them to know whether the opportunity should be seized to get some new cables in. This is really the most important thing. If we believe those results I'd struggle to justify a rewire for safety reasons.

As I already wrote - it might be that your intended use of the property means there are insufficient points and a rewire would be a good idea for other reasons.

 

[1987FayJane]

Thank you - all advice greatly appreciated. The intended power points are adequate for what we need.
We will be fitting a new kitchen - would that change anything? Apologies I am a complete novice.
Attached the consumer unit (aware this needs replacing as a minimum)

 

[buzzlightyear]

where it shows 101 method ,it should show N/V.Unless he super man .

 

[buzzlightyear]

the white rcd consumer unit what is it marked up.

 

[buzzlightyear]

two boards one test sheet .love this one .

 

[Midwest]

I'm not qualified to comment on the EICR, but I agree with @timhoward, excellent opportunity now (as long as you can afford), to upgrade your existing electrical installation, perhaps not rewiring but upgrading what you have.

 

[buzzlightyear]

i would get a second opinion is good ,has we are key board warriors helping people like you .get your self a spark has soon has poss .

 

[1987FayJane]

Hmmm. Well he can't have it both ways - his test results actually portray the fixed wiring as being in excellent condition. (The insulation resistance tests for all circuits are all >200M.). If the overall condition is as bad as he says I'd be very surprised to get those readings. The discrepancy between the overall comments and the test results make me wonder if those tests actually happened or the readings were invented.

I also noticed 4.17 - RCD's required for fault protection. This should not be a C2. Fault protection is covered by other methods on your installation and the tests results show it will work. I worry when I see this as it doesn't build confidence.

Also, he's listed type AC RCD protection for each circuit. This is very confusing.

So far, at a minimum and obviously without seeing it I'd be saying that
-the upstairs socket circuit needs fixing
-some accessories may need changing
-a new circuit should be run for the immersion heater
I'd also be advising a new consumer unit is installed but that doesn't mean what is there isn't safe. It's just that modern units do lots more to protect people from the dangers of electricity.

Additionally the insulation resistance results need confirming (ideally by someone else) as you are relying on them to know whether the opportunity should be seized to get some new cables in. This is really the most important thing. If we believe those results I'd struggle to justify a rewire for safety reasons.

As I already wrote - it might be that your intended use of the property means there are insufficient points and a rewire would be a good idea for other reasons.

Thank you - in terms of estimated costs (or is it a case of how long is a piece of string) would you expect?

 

[davesparks]

his test results actually portray the fixed wiring as being in excellent condition. (The insulation resistance tests for all circuits are all >200M.). If the overall condition is as bad as he says I'd be very surprised to get those readings.

I don't agree, the test results show that the wiring has good IR, this doesn't necessarily imply the wiring being in excellent condition.

You could have ununeclosed connector blocks everywhere and still get a good IR.

Even bare exposed conductors will show a good IR if theres a couple of mm free air between them.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Thank you - in terms of estimated costs (or is it a case of how long is a piece of string) would you expect

a roll .

 

[timhoward]

I don't agree, the test results show that the wiring has good IR, this doesn't necessarily imply the wiring being in excellent condition.

All we have is "The installation is old and requires improvement" and little else to go on.
Maybe I over stated it but my point is if the issue is age related (as per the comment) then I'd usually expect some signs of deterioration in the IR results.

You could have ununeclosed connector blocks everywhere and still get a good IR.
Even bare exposed conductors will show a good IR if theres a couple of mm free air between them.

Sure but there's no C1's and no mention of anything suggesting any of this.
I do take your point that saying "excellent condition" is too strong, I was really trying to highlight a discrepancy.

 

[1987FayJane]

the white rcd consumer unit what is it marked up.

This covers just the shower

 

[1987FayJane]

Apologies if I haven’t been clear - this is for a house purchase which is in process. We know there is upgrading work to be done on the electrics - the electrician who carried out the EICR has been vague beyond ‘yes yes it has failed and needs a rewire’. We are paying this cost and not using it to negotiate with the seller. But are trying to understand if it is a true rewire or just upgrading. As it would change our approach on moving in straight away or getting the rewire done.
Appreciate all the responses given!

 

[Midwest]

Apologies if I haven’t been clear - this is for a house purchase which is in process. We know there is upgrading work to be done on the electrics - the electrician who carried out the EICR has been vague beyond ‘yes yes it has failed and needs a rewire’. We are paying this cost and not using it to negotiate with the seller. But are trying to understand if it is a true rewire or just upgrading. As it would change our approach on moving in straight away or getting the rewire done.
Appreciate all the responses given!

You could get another electrician, to look at the EICR and the house electrics. But don't think its a game changer. Has the price of the house been agreed upon?

 

[1987FayJane]

You could get another electrician, to look at the EICR and the house electrics. But don't think its a game changer. Has the price of the house been agreed upon?

Yes it has been.

 

[Midwest]

Yes it has been.

I was going to say, that could be reflected in the asking price, but that horse has bolted.

I would not get too scared at the prospect, you’re committed to renovating the property, just need to factor that into your costings.

 

[littlespark]

Circuit chart mentions type 61008 rcd for each circuit. None there. Thought it was maybe an up front rcd before fuseboard, but no.

Would be asking what the “no cpc continuity” on an rfc means. Is it no cpc at any socket, or end to end continuity?
Could be a loose cable behind a socket, easy fix…. But could also be a hidden JB somewhere impossible to get to.

A new consumer unit would make it inherently safer, but any underlying problems may come to the surface afterwards

 

[pc1966]

There are aspects to the EICR that are not terribly great, but that board ( = fuse box = CU) is probably pre-1980 and if it is at all possible you should be changing it now irrespective of the results. There is an RCD in the white box but it looks not to be protecting any of the socket circuits, etc. If used for outdoor appliances, extension leads, etc, that is a pretty dangerous thing.

It might not need rewiring as such, if the cables really are in good condition, but given the age of that you will probably find there are not enough sockets in each room, or where you want them to be, same for lights or kitchen appliance locations. That alone might justify the extra cost of an actual rewire.

Do that before you consider new carpets or decorating! You might not want extra expense just now, but longer term it makes the house safer and increases the value should you want to sell in a few years time.

 

[1987FayJane]

I was going to say, that could be reflected in the asking price, but that horse has bolted.

I would not get too scared at the prospect, you’re committed to renovating the property, just need to factor that into your costings.

There are aspects to the EICR that are not terribly great, but that board ( = fuse box = CU) is probably pre-1980 and if it is at all possible you should be changing it now irrespective of the results. There is an RCD in the white box but it looks not to be protecting any of the socket circuits, etc. If used for outdoor appliances, extension leads, etc, that is a pretty dangerous thing.

It might not need rewiring as such, if the cables really are in good condition, but given the age of that you will probably find there are not enough sockets in each room, or where you want them to be, same for lights or kitchen appliance locations. That alone might justify the extra cost of an actual rewire.

Do that before you consider new carpets or decorating! You might not want extra expense just now, but longer term it makes the house safer and increases the value should you want to sell in a few years time.

Thank you - yes the fuse board is definitely going to be replaced for a new one at the absolute minimum. But as you say may be worth a total rewire now vs in the future.

 

[timhoward]

Would be asking what the “no cpc continuity” on an rfc means. Is it no cpc at any socket, or end to end continuity?

I assumed it related to the 1999 r2 on the 2nd circuit, so probably end to end.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I notice that he has incorrectly shown the fuses for both lighting circuits and general sockets as BS1361 types (cartridge fuses) but they are BS3036 (rewireable fuses) which are less safe, have different characteristics, and therefore the breaking capacity and maximum Zs shown are also wrong for those circuits. To make this mistake on multiple circuits, when you can tell the difference at 20 paces, implies a lack of attention or knowledge.

Please ensure the grey plastic cover is refitted to the consumer unit; hopefully it was only removed to show the fuses but it should always be in place before switching on. The fuses are not completely enclosed so there is a risk of contact with live parts, and there is a possibility of a power arc to the edge of the opening in the metal housing if a fuse blows with the cover removed.

I would be surprised if this was only 30 years old; the consumer unit is more likely to be 40-50 years. I can't see clearly if there are any solid-green earths (rather than green/yellow) but they would be pre-1976.

 

[1987FayJane]

I notice that he has incorrectly shown the fuses for both lighting circuits and general sockets as BS1361 types (cartridge fuses) but they are BS3036 (rewireable fuses) which are less safe, have different characteristics, and therefore the breaking capacity and maximum Zs shown are also wrong for those circuits. To make this mistake on multiple circuits, when you can tell the difference at 20 paces, implies a lack of attention or knowledge.

Please ensure the grey plastic cover is refitted to the consumer unit; hopefully it was only removed to show the fuses but it should always be in place before switching on. The fuses are not completely enclosed so there is a risk of contact with live parts, and there is a possibility of a power arc to the edge of the opening in the metal housing if a fuse blows with the cover removed.

I would be surprised if this was only 30 years old; the consumer unit is more likely to be 40-50 years. I can't see clearly if there are any solid-green earths (rather than green/yellow) but they would be pre-1976.

Thank you this is very helpful - there was an extensive refurb done in 1978 and I did not believe any work had been done since then, there was a further change to the property early nineties when this moved from a shop to a residence.
This property has been rented till quite recently when the current owner decided to sell.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I suspect that the Wylex metal CU was put in during the 1978 work, perhaps along with the majority of the wiring, and rather less was done in the early 90s. It is possible that new wiring was connected to the old CU but that seems a bit daft.