Sockets keep tripping

[clueless456]

Hi,

I moved home a few months ago and the electrics RCD keep tripping. Sometimes it will happen every few days and sometimes will be fine for a few weeks before happening again.

I have identified the problem is coming from the utility room sockets. When it has happened before I have unplugged everything in the utility room and then the RCD switch will remain in the on position and seem to be able to plug everything back in again without any problem, although sometimes I have had to wait a few hours before the RCD switch will turn on again.

The only items used in that room are fridge freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer, and a double socket I use for kettle and sometimes toaster, but these are switched off at the plug when not in use. The washing machine and dryer both have separate fuse switches, although these also seem to be connected to the problem circuit.

I do not think overloading the sockets is a problem. I did previously have an extension lead plugged into the double socket to charge mobile phones and laptop, but have now moved those to other side of property on different sockets.

The last time this happened was in the middle of the night last night and all lights also went off. I have unplugged everything in utility and the RCD switch now remains on, but when I try to turn the sockets breaker back on it just keeps tripping everything, so sockets breaker is still off, so cannot use fridge freezer or washing machine.

Is there anything else I could try without having to call electrician out? Do these things sometimes rectify if left alone for a few hours? I cannot see anything else on that circuit to be unplugged.

Many Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Avo Mk8]

made a suggestion - but clearly wrong now I read the whole post

 

[Mike Johnson]

Faults do not rectify themselves if left alone for a few hours, condensation from the dryer would be my first thought especially if run overnight, but not necessarily the dryer itself, is the dryer or the room vented? Heating elements in any of the units, even the fridge de-frost circuit are the usual suspects.

From your description it would seem that the washing machine and dryer are hard wired into fused outlets and not on plug in sockets? if this is the case you need to disconnect these to trouble shoot the problem, don't know your competency level, but usually a job for an electrician, if you can put a plug on them, unplug everything on the circuit, including the extension leads and any other things plugged in on the other side of the property, plug in and turn on each machine/extension lead one at a time, disconnect and plug in the next one, if the RCD or MCB trips then you possible have found the defective machine/lead.

Just a note, switching off at the socket is not sufficient to isolate the machines, the plugs have to be pulled out of the socket.

MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits.

 

[clueless456]

Faults do not rectify themselves if left alone for a few hours, condensation from the dryer would be my first thought especially if run overnight, but not necessarily the dryer itself, is the dryer or the room vented? Heating elements in any of the units, even the fridge de-frost circuit are the usual suspects.

From your description it would seem that the washing machine and dryer are hard wired into fused outlets and not on plug in sockets? if this is the case you need to disconnect these to trouble shoot the problem, don't know your competency level, but usually a job for an electrician, if you can put a plug on them, unplug everything on the circuit, including the extension leads and any other things plugged in on the other side of the property, plug in and turn on each machine/extension lead one at a time, disconnect and plug in the next one, if the RCD or MCB trips then you possible have found the defective machine/lead.

Just a note, switching off at the socket is not sufficient to isolate the machines, the plugs have to be pulled out of the socket.

MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits.

Thank you for the reply. The reason I asked is because when this happened a few weeks ago, I unplugged everything but the RCD breaker would still not switch on, but when I tried it again a couple of hours later the RCD breaker then worked and stayed in the on position.

I don't think it is tumble dryer condensation. It is a condenser dryer and the window is always open when in use, and is never used overnight.

The washing machine and tumble dryer are plug in sockets, not hardwired. They each also have a separate fuse switch on the wall. I have switched off the fuse sockets for those and also the plug in sockets and pulled the plugs out. The fridge freezer is also switched off with the plug pulled out of the socket.

The sockets in other areas of house are still all working.

It is just the breaker labelled "sockets" that will still not switch on. The only sockets that seem to be on that circuit are in the utility room. When I try to switch the sockets breaker on, it keeps tripping the RCD switch, so unable to switch the sockets breaker on.

If it was a problem with one of the machines and they are now all unplugged completely, should I now be able to switch the sockets breaker switch on now? As it is still not working and trips everything else when I try to switch the breaker back on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If everything is unplugged on that circuit and when you switch on the MCB the RCD trips then you need an electrician with the proper equipment to test the circuit, the MCB and RCD as well, even though that seems to be working correctly.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just a thought, have you or anyone carried out any work in the house just prior to this starting to happen? Even just hanging a picture.

 

[tims22]

The only sockets that seem to be on that circuit are in the utility room.

Just a(nother) thought - are you 100% certain the only sockets on that circuit are in the utility room? With the "sockets" breaker off and everything else on, perhaps try walking around the house plugging something simple like a lamp (assuming you've not got a socket tester) into every socket you can find to confirm that the only ones now dead are in the utility? If those are the only sockets, and everything using them is unplugged or disconnected then you're probably going to need someone with test equipment to check the circuit.

Would assume you've already done this but if not suggest plugging the fridge/freezer into an extension lead temporarily plugged into another working circuit?

 

[clueless456]

If everything is unplugged on that circuit and when you switch on the MCB the RCD trips then you need an electrician with the proper equipment to test the circuit, the MCB and RCD as well, even though that seems to be working correctly.

Could I just check, does MCB mean the individual sockets breaker?

I would really prefer to not have to call an electrician out if possible - If I can somehow manage to get it working again like previous times it has happened.

All of my freezer food is melting and also have medication that needs to be kept refrigerated. Plus my wine is no longer cold. I am not able to run an extension lead elsewhere for the fridge freezer and really don't want to attempt to have to move the freezer to another room....

Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use.

I have noticed a couple of ceiling lights flickering in the past and the bulbs went, but they are not on the same circuit. Could it still be anything related to that? Or would it definitely be a problem just with the utility room?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room. I do not use these leads and not sure if they would be live or not? It is possible they could have become wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?

I did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?

I also always switch the kettle plug off when not in use.

I am just a bit baffled as to why the sockets breaker will not switch on. If there anything else I could try to get the breaker to stay in the on position?

 

[clueless456]

Just a thought, have you or anyone carried out any work in the house just prior to this starting to happen? Even just hanging a picture.

No, although my washing machine does vibrate a lot when used - Could that have caused the problem? The last time washing machine was used was a couple of hours before the electrics tripped.

The fuse for the fitted dishwasher blew a couple of months ago, which is in the kitchen and not on the same circuit as the utility room.

 

[tims22]

Could I just check, does MCB mean the individual sockets breaker?


All of my freezer food is melting and also have medication that needs to be kept refrigerated. Plus my wine is no longer cold. I am not able to run an extension lead elsewhere for the fridge freezer and really don't want to attempt to have to move the freezer to another room....

Yes to MCB = breaker. The RCD will be a larger device in your consumer unit - if not sure post a photo and someone will be able to confirm.

From what you've described this doesn't sound like a quick fix. If you've disconnected everything from the circuit and it's still tripping then either something faulty is still connected or there's a fault on the cabling, or at an accessory / socket etc. You'll need someone with test equipment to check all this out.

If the priority is avoiding loss of food / medication / wine, and you can't use an extension lead you have, suggest asking neighbours, friends, family if they have a longer extension cable you could borrow or buying one?

"Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use."
But at those times, were the other appliances plugged in although not being used?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?
Might be, might not be. Impossible to tell from here! If the fused switch has a removable fuse carrier, perhaps try removing it? A potentially faulty outside light fed from the problematic circuit might well be your problem - but no way to confirm that based on your description.

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room.
Shouldn't have anything to do with your mains wiring.

... wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?
Although if it's been raining heavily, it's not impossible that your faulty outside light might be fed from the sockets circuit and it might be the cause of an intermittent fault which has now become worse with additional water perhaps. Bit of grasping at straws there though.

did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?
Probably not linked, especially if plugged into a different circuit.

In the absence of having someone in to test, which would 100% be my recommendation at this point, I'd probably start off by disconnecting the outside light wiring from the load side of the fused switch. Might not be anything whatsoever to do with the problem, but if you think it might be fed from the circuit; and it's never worked; and it's all got worse since heavy rain.. then may be worth exploring. If you're not able to do this safely, or don't know how to do it, PLEASE just get someone in!

 

[clueless456]

Just a(nother) thought - are you 100% certain the only sockets on that circuit are in the utility room? With the "sockets" breaker off and everything else on, perhaps try walking around the house plugging something simple like a lamp (assuming you've not got a socket tester) into every socket you can find to confirm that the only ones now dead are in the utility? If those are the only sockets, and everything using them is unplugged or disconnected then you're probably going to need someone with test equipment to check the circuit.

Would assume you've already done this but if not suggest plugging the fridge/freezer into an extension lead temporarily plugged into another working circuit?

I am fairly sure the utility is only room on the circuit.

I'm not sure if this makes any difference at all, but when the electrics tripped, it was the main RCD breaker that tripped, not the sockets one - So all of the downstairs lights went out as well.

I then switched all of the other individual breakers off, which then allowed the main RCD to stay in on position. Then individually switched the other individual breakers back on, and it was the sockets breaker that tripped everything again. And it just wont switch back on without tripping the main breaker.

 

[clueless456]

Yes to MCB = breaker. The RCD will be a larger device in your consumer unit - if not sure post a photo and someone will be able to confirm.

From what you've described this doesn't sound like a quick fix. If you've disconnected everything from the circuit and it's still tripping then either something faulty is still connected or there's a fault on the cabling, or at an accessory / socket etc. You'll need someone with test equipment to check all this out.

If the priority is avoiding loss of food / medication / wine, and you can't use an extension lead you have, suggest asking neighbours, friends, family if they have a longer extension cable you could borrow or buying one?

"Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use."
But at those times, were the other appliances plugged in although not being used?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?
Might be, might not be. Impossible to tell from here! If the fused switch has a removable fuse carrier, perhaps try removing it? A potentially faulty outside light fed from the problematic circuit might well be your problem - but no way to confirm that based on your description.

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room.
Shouldn't have anything to do with your mains wiring.

... wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?
Although if it's been raining heavily, it's not impossible that your faulty outside light might be fed from the sockets circuit and it might be the cause of an intermittent fault which has now become worse with additional water perhaps. Bit of grasping at straws there though.

did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?
Probably not linked, especially if plugged into a different circuit.

In the absence of having someone in to test, which would 100% be my recommendation at this point, I'd probably start off by disconnecting the outside light wiring from the load side of the fused switch. Might not be anything whatsoever to do with the problem, but if you think it might be fed from the circuit; and it's never worked; and it's all got worse since heavy rain.. then may be worth exploring. If you're not able to do this safely, or don't know how to do it, PLEASE just get someone in!

It wasn't the main large red breaker that tripped. It was a breaker that operates 4 other individual breakers (including one of the sockets breakers) to it's left that tripped.

When this happened previously, I managed to get the breaker on again, after switching off and unplugging everything in utility and had never before touched the sockets breaker.

So the actual sockets breaker has never tripped itself - It was only when I switched off the 4 individual breakers to the left of the breaker that had tripped, and now unable to switch the sockets breaker back on without tripping the lights etc.

 

[tims22]

It wasn't the main large red breaker that tripped. It was a breaker that operates 4 other individual breakers (including one of the sockets breakers) to it's left that tripped.

When this happened previously, I managed to get the breaker on again, after switching off and unplugging everything in utility and had never before touched the sockets breaker.

So the actual sockets breaker has never tripped itself - It was only when I switched off the 4 individual breakers to the left of the breaker that had tripped, and now unable to switch the sockets breaker back on without tripping the lights etc.

Can you post a photo showing the your consumer unit and the breakers you're talking about please?
It sounds like you're talking about a protective RCD tripping when you switch on the sockets circuit; not the individual MCBs for lights, sockets etc.

As @Mike Johnson posted earlier, MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits. Assuming the RCD that protects the individual "breakers" for lights/sockets etc. is tripping when you turn on the sockets circuit, and that it does not trip with the sockets circuit turned off - then you're back to needing to find the fault on that circuit's wiring or accessories.

I'd start as I said with looking at the outside light if you've disconnected everything else and think there's a chance it's fed from the sockets circuit.

 

[clueless456]

Yes to MCB = breaker. The RCD will be a larger device in your consumer unit - if not sure post a photo and someone will be able to confirm.

From what you've described this doesn't sound like a quick fix. If you've disconnected everything from the circuit and it's still tripping then either something faulty is still connected or there's a fault on the cabling, or at an accessory / socket etc. You'll need someone with test equipment to check all this out.

If the priority is avoiding loss of food / medication / wine, and you can't use an extension lead you have, suggest asking neighbours, friends, family if they have a longer extension cable you could borrow or buying one?

"Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use."
But at those times, were the other appliances plugged in although not being used?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?
Might be, might not be. Impossible to tell from here! If the fused switch has a removable fuse carrier, perhaps try removing it? A potentially faulty outside light fed from the problematic circuit might well be your problem - but no way to confirm that based on your description.

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room.
Shouldn't have anything to do with your mains wiring.

... wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?
Although if it's been raining heavily, it's not impossible that your faulty outside light might be fed from the sockets circuit and it might be the cause of an intermittent fault which has now become worse with additional water perhaps. Bit of grasping at straws there though.

did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?
Probably not linked, especially if plugged into a different circuit.

In the absence of having someone in to test, which would 100% be my recommendation at this point, I'd probably start off by disconnecting the outside light wiring from the load side of the fused switch. Might not be anything whatsoever to do with the problem, but if you think it might be fed from the circuit; and it's never worked; and it's all got worse since heavy rain.. then may be worth exploring. If you're not able to do this safely, or don't know how to do it, PLEASE just get someone in!

Re the laptop charger - It was plugged into the utility socket at the time, so on the same circuit, but was not switched on at the plug.

Please could you confirm if the old Sky TV wires would be live at all? As that has always bothered me with them coming through the living room wall.

I am not able to run an extension lead for the fridge freezer as the utility room door has to stay closed.

Re the outside light, please could you advise how that can be disconnected? Would there be a plug in wire attached to the actual outside light that I can simply unplug?

 

[tims22]

Re the laptop charger - It was plugged into the utility socket at the time, so on the same circuit, but was not switched on at the plug.

Please could you confirm if the old Sky TV wires would be live at all? As that has always bothered me with them coming through the living room wall.

I obviously can't confirm anything without seeing them - but ASSUMING that they are indeed Sky / Satellite TV cables, with the outside end presumably connected to an old Sky dish mounted on your house, and the inside end presumably connected to Sky equipment or left coiled up somewhere disconnected, then they really shouldn't be live. If you don't know for sure, follow it from where it both enters your living room to wherever it ends and confirm nothing is connected along the way and do the same to the outside piece to confirm it's not being used for anything unexpected.

 

[clueless456]

Can you post a photo showing the your consumer unit and the breakers you're talking about please?
It sounds like you're talking about a protective RCD tripping when you switch on the sockets circuit; not the individual MCBs for lights, sockets etc.

As @Mike Johnson posted earlier, MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits. Assuming the RCD that protects the individual "breakers" for lights/sockets etc. is tripping when you turn on the sockets circuit, and that it does not trip with the sockets circuit turned off - then you're back to needing to find the fault on that circuit's wiring or accessories.

I'd start as I said with looking at the outside light if you've disconnected everything else and think there's a chance it's fed from the sockets circuit.

Sorry I am not able to take a pic, but yes your first paragraph is correct.

 

[clueless456]

Sorry I am not able to take a pic, but yes your first paragraph is correct.

Managed to take a photo...

 

[nicebutdim]

Worth mentioning that continually resetting an rcd that won't hold will eventually lead to its failure.

If it fails in the closed position you might be left with the impression that the fault has been rectified, while a potentially dangerous fault still exists and could have lethal consequences.

I can appreciate you wanting to get to the bottom of this and learn what caused the issue, but repeatedly closing an rcd on a known fault isn't a recommended method of testing for reasons outlined above.

 

[clueless456]

Worth mentioning that continually resetting an rcd that won't hold will eventually lead to its failure.

If it fails in the closed position you might be left with the impression that the fault has been rectified, while a potentially dangerous fault still exists and could have lethal consequences.

I can appreciate you wanting to get to the bottom of this and learn what caused the issue, but repeatedly closing an rcd on a known fault isn't a recommended method of testing for reasons outlined above.

Thanks. I have tried to reset a few times, but not too much.

So it seems there are some other sockets not working either. I was just considering trying to move the fridge freezer into the kitchen for now, and tested one of the kitchen switches with the toaster and also a mobile phone charger to check the socket was working, but kitchen sockets not working either. And the living room sockets also not working.

This has confused me as the kitchen sockets are on a different circuit breaker, which does not trip the RCD protector when the kitchen sockets breaker is switched on. I thought the problem was just in utility room.

Lights are working and the oven / hob / microwave is working, just not the other sockets. Other sockets in the rest of the house are working ok.

I have plastic plug protectors plugged into some sockets, but the plug socket switches are switched off. Could the plastic plug protectors be a possible cause?

 

[Avo Mk8]

This has confused me as the kitchen sockets are on a different circuit breaker, which does not trip the RCD protector when the kitchen sockets breaker is switched on. I thought the problem was just in utility room.

Lights are working and the oven / hob / microwave is working, just not the other sockets. Other sockets in the rest of the house are working ok.

I would expect all the breakers to the left of the RCD to be fed from it, so if the RCD is tripped then none of those circuits will work, everything to the right should carry on working as before.
You might try unplugging everything that is on all the circuits to the left of the RCD, and seeing if the RCD will reset.
As has been said previously, a plugged in appliance, lamp, etc. with an earth to neutral fault can cause tripping even if switched off at its plug.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I have plastic plug protectors plugged into some sockets, but the plug socket switches are switched off. Could the plastic plug protectors be a possible cause?

No. They are not looked on favourably, but that's another story!

 

[clueless456]

I would expect all the breakers to the left of the RCD to be fed from it, so if the RCD is tripped then none of those circuits will work, everything to the right should carry on working as before.
You might try unplugging everything that is on all the circuits to the left of the RCD, and seeing if the RCD will reset.
As has been said previously, a plugged in appliance, lamp, etc. with an earth to neutral fault can cause tripping even if switched off at its plug.

t

I would expect all the breakers to the left of the RCD to be fed from it, so if the RCD is tripped then none of those circuits will work, everything to the right should carry on working as before.
You might try unplugging everything that is on all the circuits to the left of the RCD, and seeing if the RCD will reset.
As has been said previously, a plugged in appliance, lamp, etc. with an earth to neutral fault can cause tripping even if switched off at its plug.

Thank you for the reply. But some of the circuits to the left of the tripped RCD are still working, such as the water heating and lighting?

The only things I can see that are not unplugged (but they are switched off at the sockets) are the plastic plug socket protectors in some of the sockets. Would that possibly be causing any problem?

The only other things still plugged into the kitchen / utility / living room are the oven / hob, which are still working.

 

[clueless456]

No. They are not looked on favourably, but that's another story!

Why is that? Could that possibly be the problem at all? Should I try unplugging any of the plastic protectors, or would it make no difference?

 

[tims22]

Why is that? Could that possibly be the problem at all? Should I try unplugging any of the plastic protectors, or would it make no difference?

Worth trying, although if you've unplugged everything and the problem persists you really need to get someone in to inspect and check the wiring, especially to that outside light you mentioned if it's fed from the problematic circuit.

 

[clueless456]

Worth trying, although if you've unplugged everything and the problem persists you really need to get someone in to inspect and check the wiring, especially to that outside light you mentioned if it's fed from the problematic circuit.

Surely as they are plastic (and also plug sockets not switched on) surely that could not be any problem to cause electrics to trip?... Although I will unplug them all if there is any possibility they are the cause? I would have thought that only an actual electrical item plugged in could cause electrics to trip?

If I get a ladder out to check the outside light, incase that is the problem, is there a simple way I could disconnect it? Such as, should it have wires that can simply be unplugged from the back of the actual outside light itself? Or please could you advise how I can disconnect it?

Also, is there anything on the circuits that ae still working that I should unplug - Such as sockets that are still working in other parts of house / water heating that is still working, or lights that are still working? Or would that make no difference to the problem?

 

[Avo Mk8]

Thank you for the reply. But some of the circuits to the left of the tripped RCD are still working, such as the water heating and lighting?

I am puzzled by this!
So just to clarify, the water heater MCB to the left of the RCD, and the lighting MCB to the left of the RCD, are continuing to power circuits that are still working, with the RCD off (tripped)?
Are you saying that because, for example, you still have hot water, or have you checked the light on the immersion heater/ water heater and it is still on?
Similarly with the lighting, if you switch that MCB on the left to 'off', do the working lights go off?

 

[clueless456]

I am puzzled by this!
So just to clarify, the water heater MCB to the left of the RCD, and the lighting MCB to the left of the RCD, are continuing to power circuits that are still working, with the RCD off (tripped)?
Are you saying that because, for example, you still have hot water, or have you checked the light on the immersion heater/ water heater and it is still on?
Similarly with the lighting, if you switch that MCB on the left to 'off', do the working lights go off?

No, when the RCD protector is tripped, none of the circuits to the left will work. But with the RCD protector switched on (which will only remain on if the "sockets" breaker immediately to it's left is switched off) some of the circuits to the left are still working (water heater and lighting). ?

 

[loz2754]

Why is that? Could that possibly be the problem at all? Should I try unplugging any of the plastic protectors, or would it make no difference?

Have a look at this:

https://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

 

[westward10]

I would strongly recommend getting electrician involved. Suggesting you remove accessories is inappropriate no matter what precautions you take, the time you have been on here someone could have sorted it by now.

 

[clueless456]

Have a look at this:

https://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

Thank you for the link, I wasnt aware of that and will make me think twice about them. What about any water damage to a socket? Would it be more dangerous with water damage to have a socket with plug protector plugged in, or without?

 

[clueless456]

Have a look at this:

https://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

Thank you for the link, I wasnt aware of that and will make me think twice about them. What about any water damage to a socket? Would it be more dangerous with water damage to have a socket with plug protector plugged in, or without?

Thank you for the link, I wasnt aware of that and will make me think twice about them. What about any water damage to a socket? Would it be more dangerous with water damage to have a socket with plug protector plugged in, or without?

I did have a bad shock from one of the double kitchen sockets a few months ago - The sockets were switched off with nothing plugged in and I was cleaning the kitchen, and wiped over the plug socket with a slightly damp cloth and accidently switched one of the sockets on as I cleaned it, and got a bad shock.... That's one of the reasons I got the plastic plug in protectors for any sockets not in use.

 

[clueless456]

Hi,

Just wanted to give an update. Finally all working again! Although is a little too late to save the freezer food unfortunately.

I removed all of the plastic plug socket protectors and one of them was slightly wet behind. I then plugged them all back in again and the problem has now solved with all breakers now remaining on.

Please could you confirm if having plastic plug protectors plugged in, even when the plugs are switched off at the socket, does that create any kind of power surge through the socket in the same way an electrical item would (even when switched off)? Eg, can the plastic plug protectors create any kind of circuit overload at all?

I only got the plastic protectors due to previously getting a nasty shock when wiping an unused socket with a slightly damp cloth (I accidentally switched the switch on as I wiped it).

The plastic plug protectors were the very last thing I expected the problem to be. I am still a bit unsure about how that could have tripped the circuit with one of them being slightly wet, as the sockets are always switched off at the plug?

If the same socket (switched off) had a drop of water on it, without any plastic plug protector, would that still have tripped the power the same way?

The plastic plug protectors are flush against the sockets, so I cannot see how any water got behind that?

Thank you for your help in solving the problem.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Water and electricity do not mix, any moisture inside a socket outlet spells big trouble with short circuits and or earth faults, if you must clean the sockets protectors ensure they are completely dry before you put them back in and switch them back on, you have been lucky to have not given yourself a shock or even worse.

 

[clueless456]

Water and electricity do not mix, any moisture inside a socket outlet spells big trouble with short circuits and or earth faults, if you must clean the sockets protectors ensure they are completely dry before you put them back in and switch them back on, you have been lucky to have not given yourself a shock or even worse.

Just to clarify, the RCD protector breaker to those circuits was tripped when I removed the plastic plug protectors to check them (plus I also had rubber gloves on), and yes the one that was very slightly wet behind was fully dried before plugging it back in. I then tried to reset the RCD protector breaker to those circuits and it finally worked!

The bad shock I had a few months ago was before I had any plastic plug protectors. That socket was in the kitchen and had nothing at all plugged into it at the time.

 

[nicebutdim]

Water and electricity are indeed a poor combination, but I'm concerned about you receiving a shock from wiping sockets with a 'slightly' damp cloth and also the presence of moisture behind one of those protectors.

At this time it would appear as though the RCD is doing what it should, but in the general run of things you shouldn't have received a shock and no moisture ought to penetrate inside a socket if wiped with a slightly damp cloth.

Either we have very different opinions on the definition of 'slightly damp' or that moisture got there through other means. I can only opine on the basis of information provided, but something doesn't add up.

 

[clueless456]

Just to clarify, the RCD protector breaker to those circuits was tripped when I removed the plastic plug protectors to check them (plus I also had rubber gloves on), and yes the one that was very slightly wet behind was fully dried before plugging it back in. I then tried to reset the RCD protector breaker to those circuits and it finally worked!

The bad shock I had a few months ago was before I had any plastic plug protectors. That socket was in the kitchen and had nothing at all plugged into it at the time.

Water and electricity are indeed a poor combination, but I'm concerned about you receiving a shock from wiping sockets with a 'slightly' damp cloth and also the presence of moisture behind one of those protectors.

At this time it would appear as though the RCD is doing what it should, but in the general run of things you shouldn't have received a shock and no moisture ought to penetrate inside a socket if wiped with a slightly damp cloth.

Either we have very different opinions on the definition of 'slightly damp' or that moisture got there through other means. I can only opine on the basis of information provided, but something doesn't add up.

That's what I thought. I was shocked too at getting a shock! So much so that I wouldn't even plug anything in or switch any socket in the house on for a few weeks afterwards without wearing rubber gloves and rubber shoes.

It was a wet wipe, but wasn't very wet at all. The switches on that socket are very sensitive to switch on - I wiped across the socket fairly lightly and accidently switched it on as I done so, which gave me the shock. Nothing was plugged into the socket at the time.

 

[nicebutdim]

That's what I thought. I was shocked too at getting a shock! So much so that I wouldn't even plug anything in or switch any socket in the house on for a few weeks afterwards without wearing rubber gloves and rubber shoes.

It was a wet wipe, but wasn't very wet at all. The switches on that socket are very sensitive to switch on - I wiped across the socket fairly lightly and accidently switched it on as I done so, which gave me the shock. Nothing was plugged into the socket at the time.

I wouldn't expect moisture from a wet wipe to track behind a socket protector and cause tripping. While anything is possible, I'd be inclined to have this socket checked by an electrician and some basic testing carried out. If everything checks out and this incident does appear to have been caused by a wet wipe, I'd advise spending an extra couple of pounds and have the socket replaced as a precautionary measure.

 

[clueless456]

I wouldn't expect moisture from a wet wipe to track behind a socket protector and cause tripping. While anything is possible, I'd be inclined to have this socket checked by an electrician and some basic testing carried out. If everything checks out and this incident does appear to have been caused by a wet wipe, I'd advise spending an extra couple of pounds and have the socket replaced as a precautionary measure.

No the wet wipe incident was before I purchased the plastic plug protectors - That socket which gave me the shock had nothing at all plugged into it.

The socket which had a bit of moisture behind the plastic plug protector was a different socket in a different room and I do not know how there was moisture there.

Yes I will get somebody out to have a look.

 

[clueless456]

Apologies if they are silly questions, but could anyone please answer my questions in post 32.

Since having that bad shock, I do still feel safer using the plastic plug protectors for any sockets not in use. I am just a bit confused - Does a plastic socket protector make the plug live? Even when switched off?

I have just been reading more about them and from what I can understand, if nothing at all is plugged into a socket, there is supposed to be a safety shutter to prevent shocks? Should a socket safety shutter protect from shock even if the switch is turned on? I am just surprised I got a shock at all if plug sockets are supposed to be safe, which is why I purchased the plastic plugs.

I just found this socket protector and wondered if anyone had ever used these and if they are any good? As that might stop any future problem of any moisture tracking behind a plastic plug protector?

Clippasafe Double Socket Protector Electric Plug Cover Baby Child Safety Box UK | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Clippasafe Double Socket Protector Electric Plug Cover Baby Child Safety Box UK at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[nicebutdim]

Safety shutters will deter all but the most determined of young curious minds and their potential issues far outweigh any benefits. The link provided in post #28 covers the main reasons why they are frowned upon.

All things being even you should not receive a shock when using them, but where you found moisture behind one it may increase the risk of shock by providing a moist path between conductors. The main reaon for their use is the belief they'll keep young children safe from electric shock, but I'd contend the potential risks they create are far greater than the risk of shock from an undamaged, safety shuttered socket.

My previous advice has been provided out of an abundance of caution, but I have concerns about your prior wet wipe experience and the presence of moisture in another socket. I'd prefer you had to spend a few hard earned pounds getting to the bottom of this, and having the issue properly resolved, while ensuring all protective devices operate as intended. What I don't want to do is read a local newspaper link about someone electrocuted through a combination of unusual fault and a failed RCD.

I understand the frustration of not having reliably working outlets, but my concerns extend beyond resolving the obvious issue to ensuring any potential failure in the future is a safe failure.

 

[clueless456]

Safety shutters will deter all but the most determined of young curious minds and their potential issues far outweigh any benefits. The link provided in post #28 covers the main reasons why they are frowned upon.

All things being even you should not receive a shock when using them, but where you found moisture behind one it may increase the risk of shock by providing a moist path between conductors. The main reaon for their use is the belief they'll keep young children safe from electric shock, but I'd contend the potential risks they create are far greater than the risk of shock from an undamaged, safety shuttered socket.

My previous advice has been provided out of an abundance of caution, but I have concerns about your prior wet wipe experience and the presence of moisture in another socket. I'd prefer you had to spend a few hard earned pounds getting to the bottom of this, and having the issue properly resolved, while ensuring all protective devices operate as intended. What I don't want to do is read a local newspaper link about someone electrocuted through a combination of unusual fault and a failed RCD.

I understand the frustration of not having reliably working outlets, but my concerns extend beyond resolving the obvious issue to ensuring any potential failure in the future is a safe failure.

Thank you.

Could you just confirm, when an electrical item such as a toaster or fridge is plugged in, by inserting the plug, that opens up the safety shutters to enable the device to work?

But with nothing at all plugged into a socket, there are safety shutters? The socket that gave me the shock, although I accidently switched the switch on as I wiped it, there was nothing plugged into it at all, so should the safety shutters have prevented any chance of a shock anyway?

 

[nicebutdim]

Thank you.

Could you just confirm, when an electrical item such as a toaster or fridge is plugged in, by inserting the plug, that opens up the safety shutters to enable the device to work?

But with nothing at all plugged into a socket, there are safety shutters? The socket that gave me the shock, although I accidently switched the switch on as I wiped it, there was nothing plugged into it at all, so should the safety shutters have prevented any chance of a shock anyway?

The earth pin of your plug opens the safety shutters. When nothing is plugged into a socket it is not possible to push past the line and neutral shutters, although I wouldn't advise testing this on a live outlet will break under sufficient pressure.

The logic behind socket covers is sound, but the reality is that some have been proven to cause damage to safety shutters and other components within sockets and kids can easily remove them and even use them to defeat safety shutters. Nothing is foolproof, but safety shutters have proven themselves to be very effective over many decades.

Safety shutters are intended to stop items being poked into live terminals, but they (nor any other safety device) won't prevent the sort of situation you experienced. Electricity will not leak from terminals if safety shutters are open, but water does leak and moisture tracking between terminals could provide a current path from which you may receive a shock.

There are all sorts of possibilities why you received a shock, but without being on site it is impossible to provide empirical answers to the questions raised about your experiences and sufficient information has been provided to suggest thorough investigation is required. Hopefully this turns out to be a straighforward issue and one which can be easily resolved.

 

[clueless456]

The earth pin of your plug opens the safety shutters. When nothing is plugged into a socket it is not possible to push past the line and neutral shutters, although I wouldn't advise testing this on a live outlet will break under sufficient pressure.

The logic behind socket covers is sound, but the reality is that some have been proven to cause damage to safety shutters and other components within sockets and kids can easily remove them and even use them to defeat safety shutters. Nothing is foolproof, but safety shutters have proven themselves to be very effective over many decades.

Safety shutters are intended to stop items being poked into live terminals, but they (nor any other safety device) won't prevent the sort of situation you experienced. Electricity will not leak from terminals if safety shutters are open, but water does leak and moisture tracking between terminals could provide a current path from which you may receive a shock.

There are all sorts of possibilities why you received a shock, but without being on site it is impossible to provide empirical answers to the questions raised about your experiences and sufficient information has been provided to suggest thorough investigation is required. Hopefully this turns out to be a straighforward issue and one which can be easily resolved.

Thank you.

I can only assume that if I hadn't accidentally switched the switch on as I touched the socket, then I wouldn't have received a shock, but wont be going anywhere near any socket ever again with a wet wipe (even a fairly dry one) without switching the circuit breakers off first.

The strange thing was that (and this is going to sound really crazy, but i'm honestly not) before I had even touched the socket (I was probably a few feet away from socket) I suddenly had a very strange sharp pain in the tip of my thumb underneath the nail, that felt like a bee sting, or a needle going into my thumb. Then a few seconds later I touched the socket and the shock went straight through my thumb in the exact same place.

Almost like some kind of premonition. Very strange - I think the "premonition" shocked me more than the electric shock itself.

Thank you for all of the replies and help. It's so nice to have the fridge working again.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just a thought, have you closely inspected the socket you got the shock off for any cracking of the surface, moisture from the wet wipe could track through a crack in the surface and give you the shock you experienced, but I would ask, how bad was the shock? was it just a tingle or a shock that made you step backwards and have to sit down?

 

[clueless456]

Thank you.

I can only assume that if I hadn't accidentally switched the switch on as I touched the socket, then I wouldn't have received a shock, but wont be going anywhere near any socket ever again with a wet wipe (even a fairly dry one) without switching the circuit breakers off first.

The strange thing was that (and this is going to sound really crazy, but i'm honestly not) before I had even touched the socket (I was probably a few feet away from socket) I suddenly had a very strange sharp pain in the tip of my thumb underneath the nail, that felt like a bee sting, or a needle going into my thumb. Then a few seconds later I touched the socket and the shock went straight through my thumb in the exact same place.

Almost like some kind of premonition. Very strange - I think the "premonition" shocked me more than the electric shock itself.

Thank you for all of the replies and help. It's so nice to have the fridge working again.

 

[clueless456]

Just a thought, have you closely inspected the socket you got the shock off for any cracking of the surface, moisture from the wet wipe could track through a crack in the surface and give you the shock you experienced, but I would ask, how bad was the shock? was it just a tingle or a shock that made you step backwards and have to sit down?

There is nothing amiss that I can see on that socket, but have noticed cracks in a couple of other sockets around the house.

The wet wipe really wasn't very wet. The shock was quite bad - Not just a tingle, it was quite painful and I am still paranoid about touching, switching on or plugging anything into any socket ever since the shock. I have read stories of much worse shocks though so was lucky I suppose.

 

[DPG]

Thank you.

I can only assume that if I hadn't accidentally switched the switch on as I touched the socket, then I wouldn't have received a shock, but wont be going anywhere near any socket ever again with a wet wipe (even a fairly dry one) without switching the circuit breakers off first.

The strange thing was that (and this is going to sound really crazy, but i'm honestly not) before I had even touched the socket (I was probably a few feet away from socket) I suddenly had a very strange sharp pain in the tip of my thumb underneath the nail, that felt like a bee sting, or a needle going into my thumb. Then a few seconds later I touched the socket and the shock went straight through my thumb in the exact same place.

Almost like some kind of premonition. Very strange - I think the "premonition" shocked me more than the electric shock itself.

Thank you for all of the replies and help. It's so nice to have the fridge working again.

To be honest it sounds more like you had something sharp under your fingernail. That's too much of a coincidence.

Having said that you should still get the socket checked out.

 

[clueless456]

To be honest it sounds more like you had something sharp under your fingernail. That's too much of a coincidence.

Having said that you should still get the socket checked out.

No there was definitely nothing under fingernail or sticking in thumb. It was a very strange, sudden and sharp pain in an unusual place... Was definitely a premonition!... I will take more notice the next time something like that happens and stop whatever I am about to do.

 

[pirate]

Replace that socket with a new one. Sockets are not always perfect. I had one recently where the socket tester was plugged in simply to identify which breaker isolated it, but the tester showed a fault as missing earth. The MFT showed the same result.
Further inspection showed that the earth wa simply a bare cpc feeding the socket which had been "tucked in" to the g/y sleeving on another cpc...
That was rectified by properly sleeving the cpc and connecting it properly. Same result, showing lack of earth at the socket.
Took socket off, put on brand new one, and all was good. Testing the old socket for continuity afterwards and no continuity on earth, yet no obvious break. Let's just say that between the earth terminal on the socket and the earth contact for the earth pin, there was no connection. Thus, we had two areas of concern on that old socket. First, the cpc was just slid haphazardly into an adjacent sleeving, and secondly, the socket itself was faulty so no matter how good the earth connection was, it wasn't continuous through the socket itself. I know who installed the socket, have seen numerous other of his attempts at such stuff, and so I'm not surprised really. This socket was one he installed in the common entrance to a block of flats so he could plug in a brass table lamp to illuminate the entrance. The missing earth connection was bad enough, but the brass lamp had its cpc cut off, so any fault was available for members of the public, residents and cleaners to touch. Needless to say, being provided with a "new" socket in the entrance hall was a bonus for the cleaners as they could use it for their vacuum cleaners etc. by unplugging the lamp, and plugging it in again after they had finished cleaning. I guess the cut-off cpc didn't really matter because there was no cpc to the socket anyway.
David Savery did a video recently where the plastic on a plug was conductive...
I ramble...point is, replace any accessory however much it may visually appear to be ok, if there is even a slight concern over it, or at the very least test it in isolation from whatever circuit it serves.

 

[nicebutdim]

Replace that socket with a new one. Sockets are not always perfect. I had one recently where the socket tester was plugged in simply to identify which breaker isolated it, but the tester showed a fault as missing earth. The MFT showed the same result.

Also the other socket where moisture was found behind a safety cover.

Something is amiss here and the information provided warrants proper investigation.