I’m curious to find out how us electricians earn, compared to others? Having read the editorial in professional electrician about how our counterparts in Australia, Japan, USA, Germany earn anything from £11k to £19k more than we do here, added to a train driver now being able to get pay of £50k+ for a 37.5hr week, I’m wondering if it’s actually worth continuing in the trade with all the hassle it brings? My hourly rate when broken down is paltry in comparison to the train driver
- Thread starter NorthOxfordElec
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The questions I would ask are:
Do these countries you mention have a decent approved method of becoming qualified, or are they like us who allow you to do a couple weeks training and the be allowed to be let loose in peoples property?
Personally, and from lots of experience, from working with Electricians from other countries, the reasons they are paid more, is because these countries treat the Trades Persons with the respect they deserve, Their Governments aren't a Government of PC bigots, better pay equals better tradesmen in the long run, they don't have the fast fix qualification we have, or didn't when I was working with them, some of the Finnish Sparks I worked with, were amazed how we allow poorly trained people practice our trade, Rant over sorry NOE
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Deleted member 26818
I hear a lot of things about sparking in different countries.
In America for instance I have heard they have one type of sparks to do conduit and wiring and another to do connecting?
In Holland they do not use metal conduit.
In Australia they have to be licenced in each state (I understand that there is one state licence which is acceptable in all states), and there are two grades, A and B.
B grades can only work when supervised by A grades.
In America for instance I have heard they have one type of sparks to do conduit and wiring and another to do connecting?
In Holland they do not use metal conduit.
In Australia they have to be licenced in each state (I understand that there is one state licence which is acceptable in all states), and there are two grades, A and B.
B grades can only work when supervised by A grades.
One of the reasons Qualified Sparkies are paid more in those countries. Here you can do a couple of courses and Bingo off you go.
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The Ghost
I have to say it ----es me off to keep hearing about England being apparently one of the worst places in the world for electricians. Looking at statistics of death by electrocution in the trade and non-trade there is nothing to indicate the prevailing tone of english electricians are the worst in the world. If you have some figures I will happily retract the above.
In the meantime can I suggest instead of constantly running down electricians of English origin and talking up any other countries electricians that we approach the subject with a slightly more even minded outlook?
In the meantime can I suggest instead of constantly running down electricians of English origin and talking up any other countries electricians that we approach the subject with a slightly more even minded outlook?
Wasn't trying to run down English Electricians Mate.
But with the onset of Part P and the introduction of Amendment 3, where by the rules changed regarding the use of Consumers Units (CUs) made non combustible materials, prior to this Amendment 3 we had happily installed plastic type CUs in domestic installations, why, you could ask yourself. Was it bad manufacturing, or was it sub standard installation? all of a sudden the Fire Brigade decided along with all the CPSchemes that it would be a good idea, about this time the Domestic installer was born. Other countries don't have these, yes they have different grades of electricians, who have to be supervised. Lets be honest it's not just Electricians, DIY stores sell Electrical installation materials to joe public, there are other outlets who do the same, so the role of an Electrician has, in my opinion been besmirched by DIYers doing electrical work, along with, and it saddens me to say, people taking the IET 17th course etc and calling themselves Electricians, Part P as well, when we all know this is not the case. Of course there will always be an exception to this scenario, and folk taking high intensive electrical courses, often produce exceptional people, there are some active in this forum, there are unfortunately many who don't fit this type and are only interested in the fast buck option.
You talk of Death by electrocution, which is of course a tragic occurrence, but what about the shoddy workmanship, that isn't inherently dangerous, but looks bloody awful, I suppose I will upset some with this post, as it has rankled you, I will need to change my thinking I suppose, gone are the days where by you did you 5 year Apprenticeship, you became an Electrician, qualified, maybe not experienced yet, as we all know that takes time, nowadays it's all crash bang thank you Mam, I'll leave it there I think you get my drift.
I don’t think anyone is running down English sparks, I think you’ve missed the general tone of the topic? I can’t speak for other countries as I don’t know how robust their qualification system is, but for me I’ve seen a correlation between the implementation of part-p in 2005 and a decline in respect of the trade and, certainly domestically, a decline of earnings when compared to trades/careers. If there hasn’t been any sort of decline then why is it that we are so poorly paid here when compared to the other countries mentioned above? Apparently it’s a years training for a train driver and then £50k+ per annum, how many properly trained sparks do you know that have (a) learnt all they need to know within a year, or (b) upon becoming fully qualified can go into employment on £50k+ per year?
I think the only answer is to form a proper electricians union that pushes for (a) the highest possible standards, and (b) for salaries that reflect the skill required and responsibility of the trade.
It’s not unfair to say that there are people out there trading as sparks who have “trained” for little more than a handful of days or weeks.
I think the only answer is to form a proper electricians union that pushes for (a) the highest possible standards, and (b) for salaries that reflect the skill required and responsibility of the trade.
It’s not unfair to say that there are people out there trading as sparks who have “trained” for little more than a handful of days or weeks.
Judging by the types of questions and answers asked & given on this forum, across the spectrum, I would say there are some very experienced & qualified electricians in this country; if this forum is a gauge of that. More so than the inexperienced & unqualified.
As regards remuneration; it would seem that train drivers do earn a very good salary, but it does not seem that easy to become one; How do I become … a train driver - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jun/04/how-become-train-driver, plus shift work and having one of the most powerful unions.
If this list is to be believed, you think coal miners might be a bit peeved with train drivers;
Best paid UK jobs 2014 Compare your pay to the national average | This is Money - http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2868911/Best-paid-UK-jobs-2014-Compare-pay-national-average.html
As regards remuneration; it would seem that train drivers do earn a very good salary, but it does not seem that easy to become one; How do I become … a train driver - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jun/04/how-become-train-driver, plus shift work and having one of the most powerful unions.
If this list is to be believed, you think coal miners might be a bit peeved with train drivers;
Best paid UK jobs 2014 Compare your pay to the national average | This is Money - http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2868911/Best-paid-UK-jobs-2014-Compare-pay-national-average.html
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Deleted member 26818
Don’t know how true it is, but my understanding, is that New Zealand dispensed with Licensing for health and safety reasons.
I was also under the impression that Australia were to follow suit.
As for Unions, Electricians dispensed with them back in the 80s. The Electricians at that time decided they could earn more being self employed, than being employed. Something that is probably still true today.
I was also under the impression that Australia were to follow suit.
As for Unions, Electricians dispensed with them back in the 80s. The Electricians at that time decided they could earn more being self employed, than being employed. Something that is probably still true today.
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The Ghost
I know, I hesitated before pressing the button, but there is a lot of talk and comments quoted from overseas electricians on this forum that seems to cast us in a poor light. I did not mean to single you out in particular. And I do take the point that regards the five week wonders and DIY stores implicitly supporting poor electrical installation, and agree with it. It is just I hear so much putting down of certain sections of society I thought I would do my bit in pushing back and getting people to see that we have reason to take pride.
It is JIB that set rates for electricians, who purport to be for electricians. Outside of employment frankly I do not see it as impossible to earn 50k a year working full time. However I choose to work part time but am quite happy with my remuneration for my work day to day and feel well paid.
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The Ghost
More than once I have come across people who will do a job i.e. CU change for £100 I can not compete with that. No certificate no pack drill no names etc. There is a vast amount of such people doing work for consumers who are more than happy to work in this way. So companies have to compete against that kind of thing as well as sole traders. No doubt the nouveau sparks popping up everywhere will also be undercutting more experienced and capable sparks. Perhaps that is some of the causes of low wages/pay?
I see via google, that a lot of foreign (I just did France, Spain & Germany) DIY stores sell similar electrical products, which don't appear to require proof of being an electrician (although I don't speak the lingo).
So perhaps we can dispense with that one urban myth
So perhaps we can dispense with that one urban myth
Cowboys are the scourge of the earth mate, the loyal well trained Electrician cannot compete, like you say. The general public need educating, but is that going to happen, no of course not, the upsurge of Do it all Dave, and the fast track bods are the fault of the Scams, they dream-pt up these fast track ways and don't police it properly, only interest in getting more and more money/ I watched a debate a while ago in which Emma Clancy was admonished for continually mentioning getting more business and competing, when in fact the chairman said the scams should be offering a better service, or words to that effect.
Can't challenge the fact, that there are poor trade persons across the board. Can challenge that those that have obtained their training via short course are incompetent, there are several members of this forum that have taken short courses. Don't think they would be too pleased of being accused as incompetent, just because they have had to take that route.
In fact, some of the roughest sparks I've ever come across, did an apprenticeship. That did not stop them from rough work. It always seem to be acceptable standard, because they were quick to complete the task.
Most of the bad workmanship I've come across in the domestic market, has been done by home owners.
In fact, some of the roughest sparks I've ever come across, did an apprenticeship. That did not stop them from rough work. It always seem to be acceptable standard, because they were quick to complete the task.
Most of the bad workmanship I've come across in the domestic market, has been done by home owners.
I certainly made that very point in my long post, never once did I say all short course Sparks are/were incompetent, like you said lots of excellent Electricians on this forum who took the fast route, my point was that there are lots who aren't, maybe not forum members, I hasten to add.
Sorry Pete, wasn't aimed at you, or even this particular thread. Its just something I read on this forum time after time, and it does grate with me a bit
£50k for a train driver, not for me then can't take a wage drop.
Did you know that Kiefer Sutherland got paid £330k per episode of 24. Upon hearing that he was played by Kiefer Sutherland, Jack Bauer killed Sutherland. Jack Bauer gets played by no man.
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Leesparkykent
A sparks in this country can earn more than 50k a year subbing if they want to go and chase the money. I have lads 1st fixing new build flats and nicking £330 a day at the moment. Before I set up on my own and was subbing/chasing the money I very rarely didn't earn less than 60k a year....The pace isn't sustainable for years but if your healthy and a grafter it's there to be had.
Employment is changing rapidly. People are willing to deliver food on bicycles with no employment rights for minimum wage or make youtube videos and earn 10's of thousands!
The recruitment industry is booming with very large bonus related salaries, a job role directly linked to bringing in money with little to no expenditure. Ultimately by driving down salaries and employment rights.
The general poor salaries for sparks is partly due to the schemes and training providers, 5 week 'electrician' courses and the like. All they're interested in is maximising sales. Leading to lowering the quality of training and producing 'electricians' ultimately prepared to work for less.
In some of the countries mentioned in the 1st post, the electrical industry is administered by the government not a private scheme. An electrician is an electrician, and only a licenced electrician can legally carry out any electrical work.
The recruitment industry is booming with very large bonus related salaries, a job role directly linked to bringing in money with little to no expenditure. Ultimately by driving down salaries and employment rights.
The general poor salaries for sparks is partly due to the schemes and training providers, 5 week 'electrician' courses and the like. All they're interested in is maximising sales. Leading to lowering the quality of training and producing 'electricians' ultimately prepared to work for less.
In some of the countries mentioned in the 1st post, the electrical industry is administered by the government not a private scheme. An electrician is an electrician, and only a licenced electrician can legally carry out any electrical work.
I came across one earlier this week, finishing off the electrics for a kitchen install. I couldn't help but notice an old-style junction box about to be plastered over. Bits of insulating tape rather than proper sleeving. Best of all, he was changing socket faceplates with the power on, including adding spurs ("I ain't touching nothing", when I asked).
Maybe, but most I've come across in the industrial and commercial markets has been done by incompetent 'tradesmen', taken on by incompetent management working to budget. I've seen many who can't even bend a piece of conduit, let alone test or fault find their own installation.
Not quite related to the question, but what does the average elevtrician earn? Most of the local ones don't seem to earn that much. I retired from DNO 2 years ago, as a fault technician, an electrician finding faults and arranging repair on LV system. Basic wage was 30k, which doesn't sem that high, but we have 6 weeks holiday plus 13 days a year because we work 37 hour week but actually do 39 and so get a day a month extra, plus bank holidays, 12 months sick pay, final salary pension which I was able to take at 60, the company paying the remaining 6 years pension for me. On retiring I had 7 weeks pre retirement leave. Just a smug git really!
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Toneyz
Do a couple of courses may pass exams but when faced with the real world. In response to your previous post once electricians were treated as a technical trade.
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Toneyz
Yes but I can buy a gas boiler, but I'm not allowed to fit it.
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Toneyz
I thought it was illegal unless you are gas safe approved.
I see you are obviously offended that someone dare disagree with you but hey that's the way life is
Nobody has been able to quantify what Part P did for electrical safety because hot on it's heels came the 17th with it's RCD everything mentality
One statistic you will never find is how many people lived to reset the RCD who would have otherwise been dead had the installation not been fitted with one
No doubt there are people out there who will trawl up stats to suit their own argument but as I found out many years ago from a statistician they make their living from distorting the same facts either positively or negatively to suit whatever report is being written
Lets face it one fire brigade (LFB) produced the statistics from it's own area which it used to force through the national requirement for AMD3 CU's when the statistics taken across the whole country did not really support the LFB argument. Following on from that the statistical analysis changed making it difficult to quantify the impact of AMD3 CU's in the following years I wonder why they did that!!!!. Again the LFB stats were flawed because of the coarse cause analysis that appeared to be used to report the facts
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Deleted member 26818
No, it is illegal for someone who is not GasSafe registered to work on gas for payment.
If someone installs their own boiler, they do not have to be registered, just competent.
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Deleted member 26818
O
Octopus
The LFB definitely pushed for AMD 3 boxes, who then got BEAMA on the case because it would increase their revenues and profits
The BEAMA worked on JPEL/64
IMHO covering carp in metal is NOT solving the problem
All I know is no I don't earn alot but I enjoy my job and if it wasn't for these cowboys / part p "electricians" going around messing things up then I'd have nothing to fix!! These Muppets along with DIY know it alls keep me extremely busy
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