10-25mm crimper

[shanky887614]

what do you guys recommend?

i spotted some 10-50mm crimpers for £50 at my local wholesalers and when i was price matching i can get a set for £14

at that kind of price i dont mind if it is rubbish


the ck 10-25mm ones are £60 and swa £40 at my local wholesalers (21 on tlc)

 

[davesparks]

There's no way a £14 tool is going to produce safe and reliable connections.

 

[shanky887614]

There's no way a £14 tool is going to produce safe and reliable connections.

the swa crimper is £20 so why not, its not much cheaper and we all know they all have massive markup on them

(this looks like the one selling for £50 iin local)

 

[davesparks]

I wouldn't trust the £20 option either unless it comes with proof that it has been calibrated properly.

Just because it looks like a better one it doesn't make it better. I've got one that looks similar which cost around £50 ish.

 

[overskilled]

I've seen plenty of tools direct from manufacturer at 1/3 or less retail cost. I'd buy them and try them. Should be easy enough to do some physical strength and electrical resistance / continuity tests.
Expensive doesn't always mean good just as cheap doesn't always equal bad

 

[shanky887614]

I've seen plenty of tools direct from manufacturer at 1/3 or less retail cost. I'd buy them and try them. Should be easy enough to do some physical strength and electrical resistance / continuity tests.
Expensive doesn't always mean good just as cheap doesn't always equal bad

ive had things direct from schneider an its less than 1/3.

the kit was had at cost price


at the end of the day you can see if they have been crimped at that size and if it isnt reliable it will go in the bin. it must be reliable they have solder 718 of them

 

[davesparks]

I've seen plenty of tools direct from manufacturer at 1/3 or less retail cost. I'd buy them and try them. Should be easy enough to do some physical strength and electrical resistance / continuity tests.
Expensive doesn't always mean good just as cheap doesn't always equal bad

But how many of us possess the kit to test a crimped joint properly? I certainly don't!

 

[davesparks]

ive had things direct from schneider an its less than 1/3.

the kit was had at cost price


at the end of the day you can see if they have been crimped at that size and if it isnt reliable it will go in the bin. it must be reliable they have solder 718 of them

You won't know if it's reliable until too late. Loose connections rarely show up straight away, just look at the number of loose connections in CUs that only show up 1/2 years later

 

[overskilled]

That's screwed terminations though.
Provided the crimp is secure its then a mechanical joint and generally far more reliable than solder or screwed joints

 

[davesparks]

That's screwed terminations though.
Provided the crimp is secure its then a mechanical joint and generally far more reliable than solder or screwed joints

An incorrect crimp will still be a high resistance joint the same as a screw terminal. We've all seen the occasional crimp/lug which has overheated from poor crimping haven't we.

Soldered joints are better than both screwed or crimped connections.

 

[overskilled]

An incorrect crimp will still be a high resistance joint the same as a screw terminal. We've all seen the occasional crimp/lug which has overheated from poor crimping haven't we.

Soldered joints are better than both screwed or crimped connections.

Not if its subject to movement or vibration - solder tends to crack (seen plenty of MIs that state crimp or screw terminations - DO NOT solder)

 

[overskilled]

Also why not check the resistance via a continuity test?
Give the termination more movement than its likely going to see in service and test to make sure the ohms reading stays consistent?

 

[davesparks]

Also why not check the resistance via a continuity test?
Give the termination more movement than its likely going to see in service and test to make sure the ohms reading stays consistent?

Because you will need a microhmeter (ductor) to get a meaningful reason

 

[rmc86uk]

We used to use Erma Lugs but a fire happened on another site up the road due to a loose crimp on a soft start. Since that we now use Cembre lugs and I'm not sure how much they are but the crimping tool alone was £750 without a complete set of dies.

 

[shanky887614]

i should add that im only going to be using it for bonding anyway. if i need to crimp any terminals ill get a proper big set

 

[davesparks]

Not if its subject to movement or vibration - solder tends to crack (seen plenty of MIs that state crimp or screw terminations - DO NOT solder)

Movement doesn't bother soldered terminations.
In stage lighting we use multicores with soldered terminations and they get constantly moved around from show to show yet never had failures.

 

[davesparks]

i should add that im only going to be using it for bonding anyway. if i need to crimp any terminals ill get a proper big set

A bonding connection still needs to be made to the same standard as any other connection

 

[shanky887614]

Movement doesn't bother soldered terminations.
In stage lighting we use multicores with soldered terminations and they get constantly moved around from show to show yet never had failures.

the only reason a lot of MI will say do no solder is people tend to either do a bad job soldering or damage the insulation/equipment.

a properly done soldered termination is very strong, i would rather solder than use red,blue or yellow crimps. you know the copper will break before the joint

 

[shanky887614]

A bonding connection still needs to be made to the same standard as any other connection

thats why i said im trying them, there the same as the ones which are a lot more expensive in my wholesalers.

ck are £60 each and £21 at tlc so im not suprised a firm has managed to get them this cheap when you see the quantity they have.

to be honest the company is probably trying to clear stock

 

[overskilled]

Movement doesn't bother soldered terminations.
In stage lighting we use multicores with soldered terminations and they get constantly moved around from show to show yet never had failures.

526.9.3

think BS7671 disagrees with you

 

[davesparks]

526.9.3

think BS7671 disagrees with you

That regulation has got nothing to do with this, it is saying that you can't use solder as an alternative to ferrules for the termination of flex.
526.2 is where you need to look, which merely stipulates that the joint be designed taking in to account creep, mechanical stress and temperature rise

 

[shanky887614]

526.9.3

think BS7671 disagrees with you

read it again

That regulation has got nothing to do with this, it is saying that you can't use solder as an alternative to ferrules for the termination of flex.
526.2 is where you need to look, which merely stipulates that the joint be designed taking in to account creep, mechanical stress and temperature rise

in other words dont put soldered ends in an mcb or similar but to join a cable is fine

 

[overskilled]

joy of regs...I'd interpret that as saying if the cable is likely to move on either side of the joint don't solder it...

 

[davesparks]

joy of regs...I'd interpret that as saying if the cable is likely to move on either side of the joint don't solder it...

It is clearly in the section dealing specifically with fine stranded and very fine stranded conductors. And even then specifies relative movement of the conductor, not movement of the cable

 

[overskilled]

I'll walk away before I get a ban. Will say you ALWAYS think you know best....

 

[shanky887614]

I'll walk away before I get a ban. Will say you ALWAYS think you know best....

sorry but it says tinned.

now tinning is just covering the ends not a soldered connection. in other words a blob of solder on the end of a cable before putting it in a screwed connection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUaf394WIk


this is what the regs mean when they saying tinned cable

 

[davesparks]

sorry but it says tinned.

now tinning is just covering the ends not a soldered connection. in other words a blob of solder on the end of a cable before putting it in a screwed connection.

It says 'soldered (tinned)'

If there is a blob of solder on the end of the conductor it hasn't been tinned properly.
The problem, and the reason behind that regulation, is that a properly tinned connection will wick the solder up the cable by capillary action. This creates a point away from the actual connection where the strands cease to be bound together and so movement at that pint causes the strands to fracture through work hardening if movement occurs

 

[Darkwood]

The way I read this regulation 526.9.3 means is if the cable isn't clamped, gripped fixed in some form of fashion or in a housing that prevent movement and movement during service could be likely then a solder joint is not permitted, where you buy a plug and socket for say control cables etc the actual plug or socket house retain the cable joint so no movement to likely except to the actual cable as expected outside of the plug/socket.

This is why you can solder the pins in data, control, power cables etc in a plug or socket because the design ensures that there is no movement between the where the solder finishes and the flexable cable starts regardless how you bend and twist the cable external to the plug or socket.

Edit - I think the way it is put Soldered (tinned) is a reminder that tinned cable is inclusive to the regulation not that its refering to tinned exclusively.... again down to interpretation.

 

[shanky887614]

It says 'soldered (tinned)'

If there is a blob of solder on the end of the conductor it hasn't been tinned properly.
The problem, and the reason behind that regulation, is that a properly tinned connection will wick the solder up the cable by capillary action. This creates a point away from the actual connection where the strands cease to be bound together and so movement at that pint causes the strands to fracture through work hardening if movement occurs

yes i understand that but it makes it easier to understand than putting a light coat on it. how does it get drawn up the cable? solder cools really quickly unless your iron is too hot (i use a variable temp one)

 

[davesparks]

yes i understand that but it makes it easier to understand than putting a light coat on it. how does it get drawn up the cable? solder cools really quickly unless your iron is too hot (i use a variable temp one)

It gets drawn up by capillary action,

 

[shanky887614]

It gets drawn up by capillary action,

really? ive never seen that on any cables at all, solder covers the outside of the cores not inside so it wouldnt get drawn in

 

[davesparks]

really? ive never seen that on any cables at all, solder covers the outside of the cores not inside so it wouldnt get drawn in

Then you haven't tinned it properly. The solder should flow through all of the strands, not just coat the outside of the bunch.

 

[shanky887614]

Then you haven't tinned it properly. The solder should flow through all of the strands, not just coat the outside of the bunch.

lead-free solder is brittle but i wont touch it.

traditional lead-tin solder with a rosin core is all ill use and doesnt crack like lead-free solder

 

[Megavolt]

what do you guys recommend?

i spotted some 10-50mm crimpers for £50 at my local wholesalers and when i was price matching i can get a set for £14

at that kind of price i dont mind if it is rubbish


the ck 10-25mm ones are £60 and swa £40 at my local wholesalers (21 on tlc)

Got some for the same money from eBay. Total Rubish. Tugs pull off even when crimping on next size down.

 

[shanky887614]

Got some for the same money from eBay. Total Rubish. Tugs pull off even when crimping on next size down.

then it can go back, returns are allowed and im getting it from argos pickup.

ill try it, if it is carp then ill buy the swa set i was originally going to get

 

[pope]

I bought one of those swa ones weren't that impressed.

But the old boy I done my apprenticeship with had one of these crembre ones so I scoured eBay and found one doesn't look flash but you can see and feel it has made a good connection does 6-120mm I think.

I'd recommend a decent second hand one over a cheap new shiny one.

 

[shanky887614]

I bought one of those swa ones weren't that impressed.

But the old boy I done my apprenticeship with had one of these crembre ones so I scoured eBay and found one doesn't look flash but you can see and feel it has made a good connection does 6-120mm I think.

I'd recommend a decent second hand one over a cheap new shiny one.

the ones that go upto 25mm?

one of the guys i did my apprenticeship with used a cheap hydralic one, it had individual dies for each size and you squeezed it all the way, quick check to see if dies were damaged and if they are not then you can tell if there crimped (the guy trained in engineering)

 

[edexlab]

I've seen one of these cheap crimpers on site, guy told us how much it cost, it seemed to do the job ok, but compared to a cembre hydraulic crimper we had on hire the joint strength was definitely not the same, lugs would come off when given a good pull,the cembre crimpers took a lot more strength to do the same,
So if I was you I'd send them back, it's likely they have a quality issue with the cast dies and those out of spec are flogged on ebay.
The cembre lever (back lug)
crimps pictured above would definitely be a better buy, had mine for 10 years nothing to go wrong!, easy to use and reliable!
if I needed hexagonal crimps we always hired them as it wasn't cost effective to buy.

 

[shanky887614]

I've seen one of these cheap crimpers on site, guy told us how much it cost, it seemed to do the job ok, but compared to a cembre hydraulic crimper we had on hire the joint strength was definitely not the same, lugs would come off when given a good pull,the cembre crimpers took a lot more strength to do the same,
So if I was you I'd send them back, it's likely they have a quality issue with the cast dies and those out of spec are flogged on ebay.
The cembre lever (back lug)
crimps pictured above would definitely be a better buy, had mine for 10 years nothing to go wrong!, easy to use and reliable!
if I needed hexagonal crimps we always hired them as it wasn't cost effective to buy.

ive got some 25mm in the garage, ill crimp it and see before i send them back

 

[davesparks]

The mechanical strength is an obvious test, it's the electrical soundness that is harder to test. You need a ductor or similar high current milliohmmeter to test it properly