Apprenticeship... at 40?!

[eccles291]

Having read so many things (mainly derogatory) about the short courses that appear to be so abundant these days, I've been looking into the possibility of training 'properly' and getting myself onto an apprenticeship. The only unusual thing about this is that I'll be 40 in January. :shocked3: So am I mad thinking about doing this 'at my age'?! :rolleyes4: LOL Has anyone else done an apprenticeship at a similar age? How did you afford to survive on the low wages? I'm the main breadwinner in our house, I have a wife and 2 small children to support, so it's not so straight forward doing it this way. I'm wondering if tax credits would make up the shortfall in the wages. Has anyone done a similar thing or have any knowledge about this situation?

Thanks in advance.

 

[cogsey133]

The short courses do have their place if you are prepared to build on them ie. use it as a taster course into the trade and continue learning from there via local colleges and perhaps getting some hands on as a mate first. With regards to an apprenticeship you would be classed as an adult trainee and these positions like apprenticeships are sadly few and far between.

Good luck in whatever you do

 

[diditrain]

You would be better off speaking to the people at the job centre. They will be able to give the best advice regarding your tax credit situation. Money wise it will be a struggle unless you have plenty in reserve. I retrained, the long route and had to fund i allt myself.
Are you employed at the moment or are you long term unemployed?

 

[eccles291]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Coggsey - building on the short courses is exactly my way of thinking. I don't believe that they will make me an electrician by any means but it's a way in to the trade so I can begin my learning process. A friend of mine has done the short course route and does the odd job in down time around his other work. He's freelance in his main profession so this arrangement suits him very well and I'm thinking this is the better way for me to go too.

diditrain - I'm currently employed full time as an HGV driver. I don't have set hours as I start at different times each day (anywhere between 2:00am & 8:00am!!) and am away overnight at least one night a week (different nights almost every time), which makes evening classes impossible, hence the reason the short courses appeal so much. As far as savings in reserve go, there's nowt so it would be a huge struggle, especially as things are tough enough already! My wife works part-time to fit in around the children so there simply isn't the option of her going full time and I'm working 55-60+ hours a week. Even with those hours I'm still earning less than £22k a year! mg_smile:

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

Not of much help to you Eccles as you are employed. But here's my tale.

Was a self employed Die Technician in the aluminium extrusion industry (think toolroom bench hand). Travelled the globe and then about 6 yrs ago I went "over the edge".

In July '11, as I was long term incapacity, got offered a place at Finchale College which retrains long term sick but mainly geared towards ex military.

Got onto a 9 month course for domestic installers which finished after 6 months (we were clever! Oh, and an excellent tutor!). At the end got a 4 week placement, the fella who I got this with asked for it to be extended to 6 weeks. After I passed the final (Part P) exam, He took me on board for 13 weeks on a modest 60 sobs a day. When this finishes, if he's got any re-wires lined up he's said he'll bell me.

I think I've fell lucky, and thoroughly enjoying myself. At the same time I'm fully aware I'm not a true "sparks" and I'm looking to further my education etc.

Hope it goes well for you.

 

[oldtimer]

You dont say what you do at present ie what are the risks of you bailing out of your existing job plus have you worked in this field before ?

 

[soulman]

In my opinion, i would try for night classes, you are away 1 day a week which shouldn't be too difficult. Short courses are for people who have some experience in the electrical work, short courses are very expensive, i was going to take a short course, but decided college would be the best route, as if i didn't like it, i would have not spent a fortune. i retrained at 36 years old. I now have 2330 both levels, am2, nvq3, 2391, 2382. There was also a guy on my college course who was 55 years old. You have 26 years left of your working life!!! If you want to change now is the time to do it.

 

[eccles291]

Oldtimer - I'm an HGV driver. (See my second post in this thread. :wink5: ). I've not worked in the electrical world before but am very practical and have run my own handyman business in the past, so I have some transferable skills. e.g. - basic electric jobs, pricing up work, invoicing, keeping books etc.

soulman - night classes just aren't viable (See my second post in this thread. :wink5: ). My thoughts were that if the apprenticeship route isn't possible then I'd use the short courses to get me on the road to becoming a sparky. Admittedly it's a second best route but if the best option isn't available to me then what choice do I have? Having looked around a great deal and seen that there's so much competition for work experience I think it's important that you're able to at least do some electrical work already without having to be nursed through every single step of the way.

 

[slimsim60]

Hi Eccles, i'm having to do the same as you and am going through the start with short courses and build on that. i'm also HGV qualified but soon stand to lose that on health grounds, but i have been lucky enough that i have background theory knowledge at RF. At the end of the day if you want to be a sparks you can as long as you realise you can't be an expert in 5 weeks which you seem to have grasped unlike some of the cowboys that have been mentioned by the wiser members on here.

 

[dcelectrical]

Hi, i would enrol in a course straight away at the local college, if you are going to keep your current job on, you can do the first year without being in the trade, as you are 40 you have loads of key skills to get you through the course and in my experience (ended up at 4 colleges in 3 years) lecturers will understand if you cant attend if you are working away, they are generally human.
but it appears that you will have to work your way up from the bottom in the industry but i think your age is going to be a help to you if you find the right employer, have a look at the building maint. companies like amec norlands pme etc
and good luck!

 

[oldtimer]

Eccles thanks for the update I was not having a pop but I specialize in fault finding and I need to know all of the facts as it helps me figure it out so one bit of advise would be use your breaks in driving to study now before you say I dont have the time it is infact a good way to take in information ie small bites plus use it as a way to switch off from your job.

 

[alarm man]

dont do it...i doubt you will make anywhere near your current pay which i presume is a steady job,by the time youve gained anywhere near any knowledge it will be time to retire,you make your bed as they say..such is life..

 

[martinxxxxxx]

People believe all these ad that say train as an electrician and make £56K a year! It is utter nonsense. You might start a business as an electrician that TURNS OVER 50K a year if you are really experienced and corner a bit of a market in your area. BUT there are so many people trying it now AND the scheme providers are just about to raise the barrier on new entrants by demanding a (non short course) level 3 qualification.
Really to come into the trade you might be able to step out of the industrial world and come into domestic, you might be able to downgrade from being a technician or engineer with years of electrical knowledge and experiance, but it isn t really fair on the unsuspecting public to go from lorry driver to electrician in a couple of weeks - (or years) as in two years you will be really only good enough to be an electricians mate - not gonna pay the bills for the family for a long while unless you are going to lie to your customers and have some very sticky situations

 

[slimsim60]

Alarm man, Don't bet on it, HGV pay isn't what it was, a few of those dodgy £150 consumer unit changes and he'll be over and above, lol

 

[eccles291]

Eccles thanks for the update I was not having a pop but I specialize in fault finding and I need to know all of the facts as it helps me figure it out so one bit of advise would be use your breaks in driving to study now before you say I dont have the time it is infact a good way to take in information ie small bites plus use it as a way to switch off from your job.

I didn't think you were having a pop at all. Starting with the basics whilst I'm driving would be my intention. I've already found a couple of useful sites to read up on the theory side of things which don't cost a penny. The more I can learn for nothing, the better.

dont do it...i doubt you will make anywhere near your current pay which i presume is a steady job,by the time youve gained anywhere near any knowledge it will be time to retire,you make your bed as they say..such is life..

HGV driving really isn't anything like what it used to be. Even if I was looking at agency work as a Class 2 driver I'd struggle to get more than £7/hour. It is a 'steady' job at the company I work for but it only pays £6.35 an hour, which is pretty pathetic in my book. Especially as we are expected to take a 'lay day' (a day with no pay) when things are quiet at work, which means that for the rest of the week you're trying to make up for the lost hours.

Let me illustrate this a little better - we are contracted to do a minimum of 50 hours a week (5 x 10 hour days). I had a lay day 2 weeks ago on a Monday. Over the remaining 4 days of work that week I did: 2 x 14 hour days; 1 x 12 hour day and 1 x 11.5 hour day = 51.5 hours for my whole week. Despite busting my gut for those 4 days I was only entitled to a measly 1.5 hours of overtime, which equates to a little over £14 before tax! Effectively I did a day's worth of work for free during that week because of the lay day. :mad2: Tell me that isn't going to stick in your throat when you really need the money!

People believe all these ad that say train as an electrician and make £56K a year! It is utter nonsense.

I don't believe the hype and never have. :wink5:

... it isn t really fair on the unsuspecting public to go from lorry driver to electrician in a couple of weeks

At the risk of repeating myself again; I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that I will be an electrician after a couple of weeks on a short course. I'm just trying to better my life, as getting up between 2:00am and 5:00am almost every day for the money I'm earning is not something I'm prepared to accept for years to come.

... in two years you will be really only good enough to be an electricians mate - not gonna pay the bills for the family for a long while unless you are going to lie to your customers and have some very sticky situations

But JIB rates for an electrician's mate are £9.67/hour with your own transport - which I have. Even that is over 50% more than I'm earning now.

 

[alarm man]

I didn't think you were having a pop at all. Starting with the basics whilst I'm driving would be my intention. I've already found a couple of useful sites to read up on the theory side of things which don't cost a penny. The more I can learn for nothing, the better.


HGV driving really isn't anything like what it used to be. Even if I was looking at agency work as a Class 2 driver I'd struggle to get more than £7/hour. It is a 'steady' job at the company I work for but it only pays £6.35 an hour, which is pretty pathetic in my book. Especially as we are expected to take a 'lay day' (a day with no pay) when things are quiet at work, which means that for the rest of the week you're trying to make up for the lost hours.

Let me illustrate this a little better - we are contracted to do a minimum of 50 hours a week (5 x 10 hour days). I had a lay day 2 weeks ago on a Monday. Over the remaining 4 days of work that week I did: 2 x 14 hour days; 1 x 12 hour day and 1 x 11.5 hour day = 51.5 hours for my whole week. Despite busting my gut for those 4 days I was only entitled to a measly 1.5 hours of overtime, which equates to a little over £14 before tax! Effectively I did a day's worth of work for free during that week because of the lay day. :mad2: Tell me that isn't going to stick in your throat when you really need the money!


I don't believe the hype and never have. :wink5:


At the risk of repeating myself again; I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that I will be an electrician after a couple of weeks on a short course. I'm just trying to better my life, as getting up between 2:00am and 5:00am almost every day for the money I'm earning is not something I'm prepared to accept for years to come.


But JIB rates for an electrician's mate are £9.67/hour with your own transport - which I have. Even that is over 50% more than I'm earning now.

try asda then,being a spark isnt just a job,its a career,at 40 i doubt you will benefit from it starting out at that age..

 

[torrens75]

dont do it...i doubt you will make anywhere near your current pay which i presume is a steady job,by the time youve gained anywhere near any knowledge it will be time to retire,you make your bed as they say..such is life..

How rude. I suppose your one of those "time-served" folk who hate anyone new coming into what you make out is YOUR trade.

Met plenty of your type, not good for anyone really are you?

 

[eccles291]

try asda then,being a spark isnt just a job,its a career,at 40 i doubt you will benefit from it starting out at that age..

What a really helpful reply! :dozey:

 

[MDJ]

Anyone who wants to re-train and work at 40 has my respect, good luck fella, I hope you get things going your way. too many bums on the dole, at least you really want to work, well done my friend.


Mike

 

[jimmy c]

My uncle was about 40 something when he re-trained from a lorry driver to a plumber, he now has his own plumbing business and doing rather well (well he's just bought a bigger house), it will take a lot of hard work but its certainly achieveable

 

[ambrad]

why do some people pull others down so quick. What is wrong with using the courses that are there, studying and getting the knowledge. After working with a local electrician for a couple of years he will have enough experience to be classed as competent. Why is that so wrong.

 

[ExArmy]

AND the scheme providers are just about to raise the barrier on new entrants by demanding a (non short course) level 3 qualification.

what do you mean by non short course? I'd love it if this were true!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Not of much help to you Eccles as you are employed. But here's my tale.

Was a self employed Die Technician in the aluminium extrusion industry (think toolroom bench hand). Travelled the globe and then about 6 yrs ago I went "over the edge".

In July '11, as I was long term incapacity, got offered a place at Finchale College which retrains long term sick but mainly geared towards ex military.

Got onto a 9 month course for domestic installers which finished after 6 months (we were clever! Oh, and an excellent tutor!). At the end got a 4 week placement, the fella who I got this with asked for it to be extended to 6 weeks. After I passed the final (Part P) exam, He took me on board for 13 weeks on a modest 60 sobs a day. When this finishes, if he's got any re-wires lined up he's said he'll bell me.

I think I've fell lucky, and thoroughly enjoying myself. At the same time I'm fully aware I'm not a true "sparks" and I'm looking to further my education etc.

Hope it goes well for you.

Elmer you did well there.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

How long do you think it is going to take you to get a JIB card?

Cloud Cuckoo if you think this will happen within the next four years.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

what do you mean by non short course? I'd love it if this were true!

Well it was supposed to come in on Jan the 1st this year but has now been moved to Jan 2013 Part P CPS which would mean Qualifying Supervisors (QS) would need an NVQ level 3.

Last year we told you about the changes to the requirements for joining a Part P CPS which would mean Qualifying Supervisors (QS) would need an NVQ level 3. While this will be the case eventually, the deadline has been extended to 2013, not this January as previously stated.
Come next year, those who wish to be designated as the QS will need to have achieved the appropriate Level 3 NVQ certificate – this will be a new qualification and should be available from June onwards.
Currently, QS’ have to complete the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Edition Wiring Regulations and demonstrate competence in inspection, testing and certification – Logic4training delivers Part P courses which cover these areas. Businesses which join the Part P CPS before the deadline will not be required to complete the NVQ.
This is good news for the sole traders and small businesses for whom completing an NVQ 3 is a prohibitive task in terms of cost and time. If you, or anyone else in your company, needs to join a Part P CPS this year our advice is to get this sorted before the new requirements come in
See Part P CPS update | Logic4Training