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Rockingit

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If the builder is a cowboy then hard luck .But all this rubbish in peoples terms about "stuff belongs to us until paid for " is worth zero f's in a court. You cannot remove stuff from a property .Its theft .
Sorry chap, but you're wrong there. Under law it's called 'Title of Goods'. It's fundamentally no different to buying a car on HP - it's not yours until you've paid every last penny of the agreement otherwise the HP firm is entirely valid in towing it away. What you'll find in most T&C's is a clause that states title of goods does not exchange until full payment has been made - in other words if a job is £50 materials and £500 labour then if there's £250 been exchanged the customer can't claim they've paid for the materials and consider the labour only worth £200. CRUCIALLY, though, this HAS to be in your trading terms.

What you can't do is cause another offence in enacting retrieval - so trespass, entering, damage etc etc - that's where you'd need a court to appoint baillifs for you. But if for arguments sake it was a pallet of bricks on a drive then absolutely nothing to stop you grabbing it back.
 

LukeD

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Sorry chap, but you're wrong there. Under law it's called 'Title of Goods'. It's fundamentally no different to buying a car on HP - it's not yours until you've paid every last penny of the agreement otherwise the HP firm is entirely valid in towing it away. What you'll find in most T&C's is a clause that states title of goods does not exchange until full payment has been made - in other words if a job is £50 materials and £500 labour then if there's £250 been exchanged the customer can't claim they've paid for the materials and consider the labour only worth £200. CRUCIALLY, though, this HAS to be in your trading terms.

What you can't do is cause another offence in enacting retrieval - so trespass, entering, damage etc etc - that's where you'd need a court to appoint baillifs for you. But if for arguments sake it was a pallet of bricks on a drive then absolutely nothing to stop you grabbing it back.
Not exactly wrong .If the gate is locked you cannot force , you cannot enter a property without consent etc .The police would arrest any trades if they entered a house etc and started to remove items . What happens with a court order is very different .And those that dont like to pay tend to know the law and how to use it
 

LukeD

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If the goods can be removed without causing any further damage then I don’t see any issue with a contractor taking back his supplies.

If the goods / materials can’t be removed without causing damages then let the courts deal with and sue the customer
Denial of access etc .He has to enter into/onto private property .Its a messy game .I know someone who got arrested .charged and a criminal record for theft etc due to this many moons ago. Far too many sharks out their .Thats why 3 embassies In london have to pay in full now before any work is carried out at their properties etc .They just got use to thinking they didnt have to pay . At the end of the day . If a guy has done work . the customer is not paying and they are in the customers house .Its going to be a real issue if the trade person wants to start removing stuff or wanting to access the property .In most cases it will never be worth the problems with police etc . Especially if it turn into a fight
 

telectrix

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bad payers need to be criminalised. at present, it's a civil matter, but if a customer has no intention of paying, then it's fraud as he has obtained goods and services by deception. application of handcuffs would soon open the bugger's wallet.
 

LukeD

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bad payers need to be criminalised. at present, it's a civil matter, but if a customer has no intention of paying, then it's fraud as he has obtained goods and services by deception. application of handcuffs would soon open the bugger's wallet.
THis then gets into a internet forum type fight .Where lots of people say never ever pay for anything until its all completed .Then others say pay for materials once arrived on site . Then others want a deposit to start work etc and stage payments etc .The whole debate is messy
 

DPG

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THis then gets into a internet forum type fight .Where lots of people say never ever pay for anything until its all completed .Then others say pay for materials once arrived on site . Then others want a deposit to start work etc and stage payments etc .The whole debate is messy

Stage payments have got to be the best for big jobs.
 

Rockingit

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Stage payments have got to be the best for big jobs.
Must have been around ten years now, I came up with a concept which would have ended all of this forever, for all the trades - guaranteed peace of mind for both parties in terms of the client getting a good job and the supplier knowing they'd get paid. A friend who worked high up in banking thought it was amazing and pitched it to some city investors he knew, who also thought it an amazing idea. Sadly, the devil in the detail decided that it would be a financial service product which would mean it would come under the licences and regulations of the FSA and so at which point the trail went dry because nobody was going to fork out roughly £5m in startup costs just for the admin, insurances and licenses alone, before even being able to sell the concept to the market. As they reported back to me, legally and beaurocratically it would be little different to creating a new high street bank - but they all loved the idea. It would also have made a lot of solicitors pointless, which can only be a good thing.
 

DPG

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Must have been around ten years now, I came up with a concept which would have ended all of this forever, for all the trades - guaranteed peace of mind for both parties in terms of the client getting a good job and the supplier knowing they'd get paid. A friend who worked high up in banking thought it was amazing and pitched it to some city investors he knew, who also thought it an amazing idea. Sadly, the devil in the detail decided that it would be a financial service product which would mean it would come under the licences and regulations of the FSA and so at which point the trail went dry because nobody was going to fork out roughly £5m in startup costs just for the admin, insurances and licenses alone, before even being able to sell the concept to the market. As they reported back to me, legally and beaurocratically it would be little different to creating a new high street bank - but they all loved the idea. It would also have made a lot of solicitors pointless, which can only be a good thing.

Sounds interesting
 

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