Does This Installation Look Correct?

Budgie_42 · Oct 31, 2024

Hi all,

I wondered if you could give us your thoughts on our friend's installation? I've included some photos. We're sure that there's something wrong with it, but we wanted some expert opinions.

Here's a bit of background:

An electrician changed the original split distribution board and carried out an EICR. Prior to the CU change, the upstairs and downstairs lighting was on two separate circuits and apparently, the lightbulbs would often blow. That's not the case now. The tariff is just on a flat rate, so our friend doesn't benefit from lower tariff through the night.

It looks like the earth clamp is a BS951 (see bottom photo)

Can you tell us if all looks correct here, and if it's not, should the DNO be the first contact?

Budgie_42 · Oct 31, 2024

Another point to add is that I noticed there is no isolation switch between the meter and the CU and the CU is located a good distance away from the meter.

KungFuTurkeyLeg · Oct 31, 2024

This is the same one posted a couple of days ago?

Budgie_42 · Nov 1, 2024

KungFuTurkeyLeg said:
This is the same one posted a couple of days ago?

Yes, it is. My original post was accidentally deleted because there was a glitch with the forum.

littlespark · Nov 2, 2024

Budgie_42 said:
Another point to add is that I noticed there is no isolation switch between the meter and the CU and the CU is located a good distance away from the meter.

How far?

The rule of thumb is 3m…. But it looks like it’s on a different floor, never mind a different room.

If I remember, before last weeks posts were lost, someone mentioned the clamp was wrong for the incoming cable.

My own bug bear is writing on the breakers… no need.

Budgie_42 · Nov 2, 2024

littlespark said:
How far?

The rule of thumb is 3m…. But it looks like it’s on a different floor, never mind a different room.

If I remember, before last weeks posts were lost, someone mentioned the clamp was wrong for the incoming cable.

My own bug bear is writing on the breakers… no need.

The earth clamp looks to be a BS951 (see above photo). The CU is part-way down the stairs to the cellar and meter is in the cellar on the far wall. At a guess, I'd say it's roughly 5 metres distance in a straight line, but further if you follow the cable round.

littlespark · Nov 2, 2024

how did they change the board without isolation? Even the fuse is still sealed.... which of course isnt the way it should be done.

theres an earth wire just hanging near the gas meter... shouldnt that be clamped to the gas pipe?

Changing the board doesnt effect the tariff... so they might still be on "whole house" 2 rates.... but we wouldnt know for sure.

5m or more is certain;ly too far without isolation.... and really a switch/fuse should be used

Budgie_42 · Nov 2, 2024

I've no idea how the board was changed without isolating the supply. I get the impression that the electrician wasn't very experienced, hence us wanting to check all this out.

The property is just on a single tariff, although I don't know if this was the case prior to the board change.

I'm aware that the safety bond isn't currently attached to the gas pipe.

If the lighting was on two circuits (up and down) before, why would the electrician switch to one circuit when the board was changed?

Any other thoughts on this installation and what to do next? Contact the DNO first?

littlespark · Nov 2, 2024

in older properties, when there was seperate upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits, they sometime "borrowed" the neutral from one circuit to serve the other... such as the stair lights...
This didnt matter with old fuses and circuit breakers, but where RCBO's sense the neutrals as well as the live... they wouldpick this up as a fault.

Its either double up the affected circuits onto one, or spend time investigating and rewiring the lights to seperate them completely.... which could be a major upheavel just for one cable.

Theres nothing the DNO will do.... everything after the meter is the customers responsibility.

Is there no isolater just before the consumer unit? I am surprised if the tails go direct from the meter into the unit.

I might be wrong... but i wonder if he cut the seal, pulled the fuse to isolate, and just placed the seal back.... I'm just going by the photo

westward10 · Nov 2, 2024

I suspect the two lighting circuits have crossed neutrals through the landing light not uncommon and splitting them onto separate RCBOs would result in them tripping.

mainline · Nov 2, 2024

Budgie_42 said:
The earth clamp looks to be a BS951 (see above photo). The CU is part-way down the stairs to the cellar and meter is in the cellar on the far wall. At a guess, I'd say it's roughly 5 metres distance in a straight line, but further if you follow the cable round.

Do the meter tails run through the fabric of the building less than 50 mm depth from the surface ?
Are the tails clipped /supported properly ?

It looks a bit of a lash-up to me.

Budgie_42 · Nov 2, 2024

littlespark said:
in older properties, when there was seperate upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits,...

Were the separate circuits only particular to older properties? Is that not the case anymore?

littlespark said:
Its either double up the affected circuits onto one, or spend time investigating and rewiring the lights to seperate them completely.... which could be a major upheavel just for one cable.

That answers the question as to why the electrician amalgamated the two circuits. Thanks.

littlespark said:
Theres nothing the DNO will do.... everything after the meter is the customers responsibility.

What about the BS951 clamp? That would be on the DNO side. I thought it was the case that everything from the CU onwards is the customer's responsibility?

littlespark said:
Is there no isolater just before the consumer unit? I am surprised if the tails go direct from the meter into the unit.

I'm sure there isn't an isolator near the consumer unit. There certainly isn't one anywhere near the meters.

littlespark said:
I might be wrong... but i wonder if he cut the seal, pulled the fuse to isolate, and just placed the seal back.... I'm just going by the photo

It sounds like the only possibility. Thanks for your input. It's very helpful.

Budgie_42 · Nov 2, 2024

westward10 said:
I suspect the two lighting circuits have crossed neutrals through the landing light not uncommon and splitting them onto separate RCBOs would result in them tripping.

Yes, I now realise that this is the most plausible reason why the electrician combined the circuits when he upgraded the fuse box.

Budgie_42 · Nov 2, 2024

mainline said:
Do the meter tails run through the fabric of the building less than 50 mm depth from the surface ?
Are the tails clipped /supported properly ?

It looks a bit of a lash-up to me.

From what I recall, the cables from the meter ran up the wall of the cellar and were tacked along the beams. I can't remember if they continued like that all the way to the CU.

mainline · Nov 3, 2024

littlespark said:
heres nothing the DNO will do.... everything after the meter is the customers responsibility.

What about the BS951 clamp? That would be on the DNO side. I thought it was the case that everything from the CU onwards is the customer's responsibility?

The Dno is responsible for the clamp and up to their meter.

PoppyAnn · Nov 4, 2024

littlespark said:
How far?

The rule of thumb is 3m…. But it looks like it’s on a different floor, never mind a different room.

If I remember, before last weeks posts were lost, someone mentioned the clamp was wrong for the incoming cable.

My own bug bear is writing on the breakers… no need.

Why no need to writing on the breakers? I normally use a lable machine printing on heat shrink tubing to slip over all cables/wires along with printed lables on the cover, I use to wire up control boards for machines and I use to hate it when I went out on a breakdown and there was just a bundle of red "or any other colour" wires in the control box i use to try and get the customer to let me do a full rewire on most machines it would be quicker to do a full rewire than to try to work out which wire controled which function if they agreed to the full rewire I would use 25 core cable which had the wire number printed along each wire and would supply a 2 or 3 wiring diagrams when finished, it made it much easier for people in the future to fault find.

littlespark · Nov 4, 2024

Marking the cables, yes…. Marking the individual circuit breakers I don’t like. Just a personal opinion.

Sometimes it covers the information needed when performing an EICR.
Sometimes the breaker doesn’t match what’s on the front panel or circuit chart because some previous work has swapped around where the circuits sit.

In the OPs photos… we can see an empty 6A second from left. The breaker is marked as lights, but because he had the neutral problem and doubled up into the next breaker… the cover says blank. So the breaker now has lights written on it, but it doesn’t serve any circuit.

Like I say, it’s just a personal opinion… no regulation states it.

DefyG · Nov 4, 2024

I tend to write the circuit number on the mcb say every 5th mcb/rcbo just to help make it easier to locate in a large multi way or 3ph board rather than count from the right, left or up and down each time, but not the actual circuit name.