5.6kw for 500 quid?!

[Martin Dawes]

Energy Saving Group - Home

If this isn't a con, then I've never seen one.

 

[rocker]

That's hilarious!

 

[Bushy]

So now would not be the time to say I've order a couple :lol:

 

[Noshocks]

This was mentioned on another form, the 500 is for the survey, if suitable they will then probably put you intouch with one of the rent a roof providers, its all a con, none of the picture of PV are UK houses.

 

[Martin Dawes]

It does say "Fully installed and maintained for 25 years". It's not just misleading - its a bare faced con.

 

[Markc]

And not on MCS list.

 

[nickblake]

So if i get 70 people in my house do i get cavity wall insulation free hehe

 

[Martin Dawes]

Remarkably, I've just had a visit from one of their reps. Coincidentally on the day that I finally connected my PV system to the grid.

She thought I'd been conned because I'd installed them myself for 6k. When I pressed her, she confidently claimed that their company was installing these systems for £500 and that this because of a government grant. When I pointed out that there was no government grant and FITs had replaced these, she was adamant. Incredibly, despite the fact that I clearly knew what I was talking about, she stuck to her guns. I was wrong, she was right.

This is a balls out con and something should be done about it. They must be doing a lot of this canvassing and it is hugely damaging to the image of the industry.

 

[Markc]

Is that not misleading sales tack ticks? They should also be signed up to someone like REAL should they not. If that is they have MCS! Or do they sub it all out to companies that do have MCS. If I didn't have panels on my roof I'd ask them over just to try them out and hear what and how they are selling this. May be a call to watchdog I think. If we all report then they might end up on TV! Worth a try. And as for office of fair trade and all that! What a load of twaddle! If that's not mis-selling I don't know what is?

 

[Martin Dawes]

I want to report this as it's clearly a scam. Anyone any idea who I should contact? Office of Fair Trade?

The girl arrived as I was having my new windows delivered by a friend of mine. The scene on our drive was comical.

Let me be clear. She was not talking about a survey. She was going as far as saying I've wasted my money by installing them myself. What an idiot!

 

[melwilby]

What panels did you spec for your own installation did you carry out research to find a good one look forward to your kind response.

 

[Martin Dawes]

I used Sharp 185 panels for my installation. I have an odd shaped roof and I found I could maximise my roof space by using these. I did a fair bit of research but there are so many panels to choose from it makes you glad that the MCS scheme is so strict.

 

[Penny]

Please tell me is this offer from energysavinggroup.co.uk a scam

 

[Lanx74]

Please tell me is this offer from energysavinggroup.co.uk a scam

Its not a scam.

Simply that they are offering to pay for the installation, but they own the system for the duration of the F.i.T payment and therefore the Generation and Export tariff goes to them. After the F.i.T payments cease, the panels are the property of then current house owner.
The electric generated is for the occupier to use as they will or can at no cost.

For people who are looking to reduce their bills and have not got the money to invest in the solar market then its a great option. Its also fantastic for the rental market as it allows landlords to upgrade their portfolio for the benefit of both themselves and lower income families.

Remember that saving money is not a just right of the ones with some to spare already

 

[PeteC]

Loop holes! as far as I know you only have to be MCS for the fits payments. I know of a major PV installer (denationalized energy provider) that have been able to acquire grants (eu I believe) just recently for 300+ systems in Wales under some guise of a deprived area (guess the town M....yr). Definitely worth setting them up for a fake survey to test them out though.

 

[SolarCity]

It absolutely IS a scam.

Read their web site. There is no mention of FITs - simply grants. Their very front page is totally misleading (deliberately). Their salespeople claim that the customer DOES keep the FITs AND free electricity benefits.

 

[JulianC]

Oooh look, Penny and Lanx74 both work for energysavinggroup.con

Pair of losers.

I have nothing against these rent a roof schemes and am sure it suits some people. But to dress it up as something else and charge £500 for the privilege? Bloody disgraceful.

 

[SolarCity]

I have nothing against these rent a roof schemes and am sure it suits some people. But to dress it up as something else and charge £500 for the privilege? Bloody disgraceful.

Absolutely. Free solar panels are great for those that can't afford them.

Misleading the public like the Energy Saving Group is doing is an absolute disgrace.

There is hardly a customer in our area that hasn't been approached by these people. One of the customers we are dealing with right now has actually paid out £500 and is awaiting a refund.

 

[Noshocks]

Same here, customer i went to the other day had paid £500 and was told he could have the £0.03 export tariff, he was then told that they had changed their policy and knowones offering this now, no sign of a refund, it may not be a scam but it doesent smell right.

 

[SolarCity]

Same here, customer i went to the other day had paid £500 and was told he could have the £0.03 export tariff, he was then told that they had changed their policy and knowones offering this now, no sign of a refund, it may not be a scam but it doesent smell right.

That's exactly the same as the situation with our customer. They announced they changed their policy and he is now trying to get his money back.

 

[Noshocks]

The free schemes are on the way out for sure, as a business model it has at least one problem, capital, you need loads of it, only one or two will survive and probably the onnes that deal with social housing, councils wouldent allow them to go bust.

 

[Lanx74]

Oooh look, Penny and Lanx74 both work for energysavinggroup.con

Pair of losers.

I have nothing against these rent a roof schemes and am sure it suits some people. But to dress it up as something else and charge £500 for the privilege? Bloody disgraceful.

Firstly Julian, thank you for the compliment, it was highly deserved based on the venom in my post and I'm sure your proud of yourself.

Secondly, I don't work for them, simply doing my research into a similar outlet and looking for opportunities like we all are.

In addition, it seems that the criteria for the free systems is very strict on orientation and roof size and therefore a majority of people who want the free panels simply cannot. As I can make out, energy saving group are doing the ones that are off south as well, and smaller roofs than free systems qualify for?

Surely the ones who go to them in the first place have looked at the free option first and been refused as sub optimum ( like I have )

 

[Pleasereadthis]

I am an employee of Energy Saving Group, should i say self employed. We do offer systems up to 5.6 kw for £500 on any orientation of roof bar north facing, our installs are sub contracted out to a named company who have undetaken all of our work. The inital additional payment of £0.03 p per exported unit was agreed with another company who then decided to plug the contract as it wasn't deemed financially inadequate for them.

We all know how it works... you are better off installing and paying for your investment independently even though it is a longer term investment, as you get 41.3 p per unit plus reductions on your electricity bill as well as 3 p for every unit you are exporting that is not used. We provide customers with Schuco Panels with a 1.9kwh output.

This isn't a CON it gives people who aren't as lucky as the small minority of us, perhaps 3% of all domestic households that are entitled to free systems or the more affluent or settled households that can afford to invest in a full priced system. Some people within the company may not know this which does obviously cause fractions for the company as people are not dealing on the same wave length. If you want to delete my post you are more than welcome to. But i do ensure you that this isn't a con and there are many happy companies within my area of work.

Thank you for your time

 

[SRE]

I am an employee of Energy Saving Group, should i say self employed. We do offer systems up to 5.6 kw for £500 on any orientation of roof bar north facing, our installs are sub contracted out to a named company who have undetaken all of our work. The inital additional payment of £0.03 p per exported unit was agreed with another company who then decided to plug the contract as it wasn't deemed financially inadequate for them.

We all know how it works... you are better off installing and paying for your investment independently even though it is a longer term investment, as you get 41.3 p per unit plus reductions on your electricity bill as well as 3 p for every unit you are exporting that is not used. We provide customers with Schuco Panels with a 1.9kwh output.

This isn't a CON it gives people who aren't as lucky as the small minority of us, perhaps 3% of all domestic households that are entitled to free systems or the more affluent or settled households that can afford to invest in a full priced system. Some people within the company may not know this which does obviously cause fractions for the company as people are not dealing on the same wave length. If you want to delete my post you are more than welcome to. But i do ensure you that this isn't a con and there are many happy companies within my area of work.

Thank you for your time

Is that the same company who quoted for a 3.9kwp system (on a house that could only physically fit 2.2kwp on it ) to an elderly couple and told the same couple that they could have their existing solar thermal moved and then claim for the RHI (which hadn't been agreed at the time) even though they had already had the LCBP grant 4 years ago. Exactly the same name - but could obviously be a coincidence....

 

[Pleasereadthis]

Were you not aware you could back date your RHI? And if this is an electricians forum what relevance does this have?

As for fitting a system of that size on a roof that obviously cannot hold it that pretty pointless, possibly a mistake.... maybe its the fact that business is being taken from you?

If you had the initial money to input would you not run a scheme like this? Benefiting from 15 years of profit through the FIT scheme? Obviously your reputation and income isn't that substantial

 

[Markc]

.... maybe its the fact that business is being taken from you?

If you had the initial money to input would you not run a scheme like this? Benefiting from 15 years of profit through the FIT scheme? Obviously your reputation and income isn't that substantial

I don't see these "Free" systems as taking any business away form my company at all and in fact I can very easily and straight forwardly prove these systems as financially un-beneficial by providing independent evidence such as Which, Martin Lewis etc who all state it is better to borrow the money to have an installation over a "free" one. I was worried coming on a year ago but now, No, The people who have a "Free" system are not my customers anyway.

In truth NO. The risk is to great and only time will tell on this. There is no more prove of return now than there was last year. A change of government or policy could see the FITs by the way side and that would affect ALL our business. The introduction of the Green Investment Bank (if introduced to the full extent it originally was proposed to be) will see these "free" system wiped off the planet. A company offering these has to be heavily in debt with either the bank or investors so the risk is greater here than what I do.

As for reputation and income it's as substantial as it needs to be and in good order. I pride myself on providing honest clear advice which is backed up by having over forty years trading history.

If you can't win an argument there's no need to resort to snide comments. You are doing well I trust with what you are offering and good luck to you for doing well but lets make one very clear point, you are offering nothing to a customer we don't. In fact you are offering less. All this profit your company is gaining isn't there yet and it will be some time before it is. I on the other hand have it in the bank.

 

[SolarCity]

Allow me to quote from the website:

"Full Renewable Energy Survey Including:

Solar PV Installed up to 5.6kw
for only£500.00

Fully Installed and Maintained for 25 years

(Typical cost if purchased outside of offer - £28,220 for the system plus £3,750 maintenance agreement)"

Now, the bit at the bottom is the crucial part. It is deliberately misleading. A 5.6kW system from which you do not receive FITs is not installed for £28,220. For your information, this system would take around 70 years to pay for itself if the FITs weren't offered. There is no mention whatsoever of the FITs on your website.

The sale people are either drastically and unethically untrained or deliberately lying. How do I know? One of them was on my drive one morning explaining that the FITs were kept by the customer.

I'll be frank - there is a market for the free solar panel installers in this market as long as the ones that offer it are ethical and transparent. The Energy Saving Group, in my opinion, is neither of these things, and is in fact a blight on our industry and we'd all be better off without them.

​

 

[SRE]

Were you not aware you could back date your RHI? And if this is an electricians forum what relevance does this have?

As for fitting a system of that size on a roof that obviously cannot hold it that pretty pointless, possibly a mistake.... maybe its the fact that business is being taken from you?

If you had the initial money to input would you not run a scheme like this? Benefiting from 15 years of profit through the FIT scheme? Obviously your reputation and income isn't that substantial

I have the money to invest - I chose not to. My reputation nationally in my field is excellent thanks and I have recognition from Prince Charles and Al Gore for the work I've done over the last 20 years. As Mark says if you're doing well then congratulations - we're all striving to achieve the same thing honest, decent work for an honest decent day's pay. We didn't sell to the elderly couple because they couldn't afford it and my conscience wouldn't let me.

 

[TedM]

Please read this - perhaps you are unaware that as from 1st March 2011 the Advertising Standards Authority also have responsibility for handling complaints about a company's website contents?

New online remit - Advertising Standards Authority

This now allows members of the public to complain to the ASA about marketing material on websites. All they have to do is complete a simple online complaint form here Step 1 - Advertising Standards Authority

It only takes about 10 minutes.

 

[Worcester]

Domain name:
energysavinggroup.co.uk

Registrant:
Steven Dickson

Registrant type:
UK Individual

Registrant's address:
Quarry House
Fox Lane
Bromsgrove
Worcestershire
B61 7NG
United Kingdom


Perhaps I'll ask them to come and quote my dad.

 

[Ramjam]

Any MCS accredited installer subcontracted or otherwise is obliged by the REAL assurance code. The code has very strict rules about sales people, their training, claims and tactics. If anybody is installing a system that has been mis-sold in any way then they can be thrown out of REAL and by definition MCS. Many of us who have visited customers to find that another sales person has called and made false claims or simply doesn't know enough to be able to guide the customer through the sale. I spoke with REAL assurance about British Gas and a National Window company both of whom had mis-led customers, they said...

"Technically the REAL complaints procedure is triggered by a consumer complaint but they are very interested to hear of mis-selling from any source including disgruntled competitors."

I suggest that rather than bitch and moan on here you simply write a letter to REAL every time you encounter mis-selling naming the company and the consumer, keep a template and simply fire the letter off every time you come across it then at least they will be aware of who they need to target their random audits at.

 

[Pleasereadthis]

In regards to the company we are self employed people, if they want to mis lead as i say to every single one of my customers they can simply shut the door in their face.

As i said in my previous post i am not targetting any specific individual but no misleading information is given on my part so don't specifically target the company as a whole. I believe in my job in providing people with substantial reductions in their electricity bills, if you are all accredited with your certifications you will know you can't get anywhere in the world without them, our sub contractor is MCS and REAL accredited.

There is substantial investment in this project but with the government guaranteed FIT scheme for 25 years (at the price you sign your contract) there is clearly money to be made through this.

The system makes it more accessible to the less affluent people out there still offering a substantial reduction in electricity bills obviously dependant on system sizes, orientation etc.

People are quite happy to forfeit their FIT's but as we both know to make it more profitable for the individual they should buy their systems outright based upon a 10% return.

 

[Ramjam]

The REAL code exists to protect vulnerable people who do not have the wit, wisdom or confidence to shut the door in the face of dodgy salesmen if indeed they can spot them. The responsibility for ethical sales lies with the seller not the consumer!!!!

I think we all understand the progressive benefits of roof-for-rent and it's place in the market, I for one have no problem with the concept providing that the host can buy the system further down the line for a fair price if they later choose to own it or need to buy it in order to be able to sell their home.

I for one have no experience of you or your colleagues mis-selling and I'm not accusing you of that. My point is simply that if we encounter mis-selling we should report it and if an MCS accredited installer installs a system that has been mis-sold then they are likely to be thrown out of the scheme. Remember that it might be years down the line when the customer realises that they have been mis-sold but it will still catch the installer.

With regards profit, it's simple if you are an installer then you should make your profit by installing and if you are a financier then make your profit by financing, rarely are the different skills of financier and electrician found in the same individual.

If you are in any way connected with people who mis-sell then I suggest you divorce yourself from that and install quality systems well explained to customers who can afford them, there is loads of money to be made that way, the market is growing all the time and it's just easier.

I expect that in the future ethical financiers will provide roof-for-rent schemes that can be accessed by credible local installers to serve the people that you highlight and that will be safer than trying to use dodgy tactics early in this emerging market.

 

[SolarCity]

In regards to the company we are self employed people, if they want to mis lead as i say to every single one of my customers they can simply shut the door in their face.

So what you're basically saying is "If people are stupid enough to fall for unethical salesmen, it is their own fault for now closing the door in their face?

As i said in my previous post i am not targetting any specific individual but no misleading information is given on my part so don't specifically target the company as a whole.

My company, your company and every other forum member's company is judged by the people that they employ and their advertising. Your website, as I have already pointed out, is deliberately misleading.

If you are an ethical salesperson then congratulations. However, the company that you work for is unethical and so are at least some of their employees. Have you challenged any of your bosses for this?

"Just doing my job, Captain, just doing my job."

 

[TedM]

Isn't it the case that both major companies that were thrown out of MCS/REAL for illegal practices (yes, they were quite specifically illegal not just against the "rules") were also reinstated "on probation"?

 

[Dicanio-10]

The feedback we get from customers is that the systems never actually get fitted.

Pleasereadthis - Who is this named installer, it would appear they have too much work to handle as the customers that contact us have been waiting for months for the work to be done.

How does this 'Rent a roof' work if you want to move home, legally it's like having a sitting tennant and you loose the properties freehold status - do you make the customer aware of this?

 

[davellis]

Hi. I'm not an electrician, just someone interested in photovoltaics and their application to private houses. As I understand it, this £500 which you pay is so that Energy Saving Group can fit a set of panels on your roof....your electricity bill is reduced by the amount of power the panels generate while you are using power. Any surplus power produced by the panels above what you are using at any time is paid to ESGroup.
They set everything up, they own and maintain for 25 years so they get most of the repayments.
It may not be the best arrangement for someone who can pay for the whole installation, but for someone who only wants to pay a nominal £500 it doesn't seem that bad. Certainly not a scam.

 

[JulianC]

Are you another ESG stooge?

 

[davellis]

Nope. I am looking into the whole thing because I'm interested in it. It so happens that a friend of mine has asked them to install on his house, I was looking to see if there was anything on the net about ESG and I came across this forum. The papers he showed me made it quite clear that the system belonged to them and that you get much less benefit than if you buy the system outright. They may be crooks...I don't know, but they certainly don't pretend that you get the whole bag of tricks for £500.

 

[SRE]

Be very careful - the latest wheeze is to write into the contracts that any maintenance needed on the roof will result in the homeowner paying to have the panels removed and the loss of feed in tariff during the period. Where many rent a roof companies allowed systems to be bought out at a later date this now seems to be being replaced with the option to buy out so long as you provide the equivelant lost feed in tariff. Imaging trying to sell your house with ageing panels on them and not even the benfit of the feed in tariff to make the sale more attractive - and all for the equivelant of a tank of petrol a year. I don't know how they can sleep at night!