Antique Chandalier - with no earth...

[Marcus Vaughan]

Hi all. So I have been asked to install a couple of 18th century antique chandeliers that have previously been ‘electrified’ (customers words!).
Anyway I am but uneasy about it in terms of earthing. There is the kind of 2 core cable you sometimes get with modern double insulated pendants lights, and the cable feeds plastic e27 lamp holders around the chandelier. The cable is tied to the metal frame with thin tie wire.

Physical check and all is fine. I would have preferred to get an earth down to the frame - but can’t.

Obviously no double insulation symbol.

Am I being over-cautious? Would you put it up as is?

 

[ruston]

I cannot see it properly , but if it is metal I would want it earthed.
I would not put it up as it is .
Maybe there is a way to get a similar 3 core in.
I would be careful with this as the alterations will be your responsibility.

 

[Charlie_]

Electrical Separation

 

[westward10]

Provided the metalwork is not exposed to single insulation of the conductors and the lamp holders are not metal I doubt it needs an earth.

 

[Charlie_]

Does the circuit have rcd protection?

 

[AlmondSauce]

Can you put up pictures of the fitting so we can see it more clearly? If it were me I'd be similarly cautious and would likely want to drill through it at some point to fit an earth, unless it really is crystal clear that all the metalwork is separated.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Does the circuit have rcd protection?

Yes. I put a new board in a couple of months ago.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Can you put up pictures of the fitting so we can see it more clearly? If it were me I'd be similarly cautious and would likely want to drill through it at some point to fit an earth, unless it really is crystal clear that all the metalwork is separated.

I took a few photos but they were all pretty poor. I was trying to keep the light in its transportation box....

 

[AlmondSauce]

I took a few photos but they were all pretty poor. I was trying to keep the light in its transportation box....

Yeah, that's fair... I can also see why drilling through an antique light fitting might be considered a bit uncouth unless absolutely necessary!

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Yeah, that's fair... I can also see why drilling through an antique light fitting might be considered a bit uncouth unless absolutely necessary!

Exactly.

There are some tiny bolted connections in the structure with what look like hand cut nuts ?!

Not for the faint hearted trying to get an earth to it - and it will always be visible if I went down that route. A nice bit of green and yellow on a chandelier?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Physical check and all is fine. I would have preferred to get an earth down to the frame - but can’t.

put in a three core cable .Transparent Round Clear PVC 3core 6A Electric Flex Cable Chandelier CCF-534 0.75

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Provided the metalwork is not exposed to single insulation of the conductors and the lamp holders are not metal I doubt it needs an earth.

Thanks Westward. The one in the image I’d happily take as double insulated - I guess that’s my call.

The other one though - I would class as insulated and sheathed...

 

[AlmondSauce]

put in a three core cable .Transparent Round Clear PVC 3core 6A Electric Flex Cable Chandelier CCF-534 0.75

Yup, I'd assume this was the route you'd take rather than just have an extra green/yellow conductor hanging down!

 

[buzzlightyear]

18th century antique chandeliers that have previously been ‘electrified’

cut the cable and put candles in .

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

put in a three core cable .Transparent Round Clear PVC 3core 6A Electric Flex Cable Chandelier CCF-534 0.75

Thanks Buzz. I’m wondering how to work that though - as the lamp holders are plastic with two terminals.

There are a couple of specialist companies that ‘electrify’ antique chandeliers. I am wondering what they use - but I suspect it’s 2 core double insulated for plastic lamp holders or 3 core for metal lamp holders...

 

[westward10]

Another problem with connecting an earth to this type of fitting is they are very often multiple metal parts with unreliable physical connections between the parts. Earthing at one point is no guarantee the entire construction is effectively earthed.

 

[Boing89]

Another problem with connecting an earth to this type of fitting is they are very often multiple metal parts with unreliable physical connections between the parts. Earthing at one point is no guarantee the entire construction is effectively earthed.

That’s where you start bonding and make a “feature” of it.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Another problem with connecting an earth to this type of fitting is they are very often multiple metal parts with unreliable physical connections between the parts. Earthing at one point is no guarantee the entire construction is effectively earthed.

That's exactly what its like. Lots of loose fitting rods and chains and the like.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Thinking it through and considering that;

1. The wiring looks to have been professionally done, and is correctly terminated and secure in plastic lampholders with no inner insulation showing.

2. Cable has only been lighting secured to the frame with ultra thin tie wire with no damage to the sheath/outer insulation.

3. Circuit is RCD protected.

4. There is no known local infestation of gymnastic flying squirrels able to reach high ceiling heights to chew cables (no external influences).

Then I'm inclined to install them as is....

 

[telectrix]

Thinking it through and considering that;

1. The wiring looks to have been professionally done, and is correctly terminated and secure in plastic lampholders with no inner insulation showing.

2. Cable has only been lighting secured to the frame with ultra thin tie wire with no damage to the sheath/outer insulation.

3. Circuit is RCD protected.

4. There is no known local infestation of gymnastic flying squirrels able to reach high ceiling heights to chew cables (no external influences).

Then I'm inclined to install them as is....

get them fitted, then learn how to spell chandelier. .

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

get them fitted, then learn how to spell chandelier. .

Aw no - I can’t believe I spelt it wrong. That’s apawling spelling..

I’m just going to call them ‘big old lights’ from now on..