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Discuss bit of help needed! in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Trouble

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Hello every one, befor i start i would like to appolagize for my bad spelling!
so i am (i think i am) a qualified spark done my 3 years at college what not done my part p 16th edition but i didnt do my AM 2 or NVQ lvl 3 while at college! when i was at college i was working for network rail or as i knew them NOTWORK RAIL! and was mainly doing HV maintenence and electrical instalations in sub stations, i also done a few odd jobs i.e a very small bit of house bashing. i left notwork rail to join a building services consultancy and am not well on my way to becoming a TOP electrical design engineer! i have also completed my frst year of a HNC in building services electrical, in taking this new job i had to take a huge! pay cut and am now all my savings are gone and im in the red! so im starting to do some sparking on the side, i just have a few questions in regards to me working...

When i hve done house bashing befor i was just working, my mate done everything else certificat and that, i didnt want to ask him and make myself look a little silly... but what do you need to certificate a job? can i do it myself...? what forms need to be done? (i know how to fill out all of the forms just not sure if i can and what ones to do)

thanks for having a look, i look forward to some replies!
Simon
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
hey cossie are you for real???
The guy needs an answer!

Trouble, you need your 17th ed and your installation and test cert.
City and guilds 2391 as a minimum.
 
T

Trouble

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
yes i am for real.... (you got to learn some where...)
thank you for the response 2391 here i come!

p.s i know i should know this by now but working on the railways is completly diffrent to work enviroment. ive never needed to know anything about writing certificates...
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
WTF has spelling and grammer got to do with it?
 
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PAUL M

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Trouble, you need your 17th ed and your installation and test cert.
City and guilds 2391 as a minimum.[/quote]
No he doesnt,2391 is not needed to join the NICEIC domestic installer scheme,i should know i have been one for the last two years.i beleive you can do the EAL domestic installer course but will need 17th regs.ask shakey he will put you right.
 
WTF has spelling and grammer got to do with it?

Everything, if you can't do the basics then you either have a problem(if this is the case i apologise) or you are not clever enough to get anywhere near being a spark, and in his own words "i think i am" FFS
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Really? Well I am not the worlds most articualte and my spelling is quite poor, I am training to become a spark as I find the work interesting and chalenging and usefull for the situation I am in (converting a large victorian house back to a family home) I also have two degrees, one of them in Biochemistry and am a fully qualiified health and safety officer, and I did not even pass my English CSE. Yes I understand that good basic written English is important but c'mon, it is not "Everything".
Paul M, thanks for the correction on the 2391.
Cheers
Si.
 
Really? Well I am not the worlds most articualte and my spelling is quite poor, I am training to become a spark as I find the work interesting and chalenging and usefull for the situation I am in (converting a large victorian house back to a family home) I also have two degrees, one of them in Biochemistry and am a fully qualiified health and safety officer, and I did not even pass my English CSE. Yes I understand that good basic written English is important but c'mon, it is not "Everything".
Paul M, thanks for the correction on the 2391.
Cheers
Si.
But look at your reply compared to the origional post, i'm no Shakespeare
either, but come on, he is either pi$$ed or someone is taking the pi$$ surely?.
 
J

jim_uk85

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
I understand what this guy is asking, but really....if he is stuggling for money then going back to sparking isn't going to help. He'll need to take a small loan out just to become an NICEIC domestic installer, buy suitable test equipment etc.

I am a young electrician (qualified for 2 years) struggling to make ends meet. No offence intended but just stick to your course as it will obviously be beneficial in the long run. However stop writing out dodgy test certificates to unsuspecting customers and let the likes of myself, who have trained and qualified do the work instead.

Sorry about the rant, it's been a bad day!
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Do people write out dodgy test certificates? jesus!
I thought you would have to put some registration number down that the customer or building services would be able to check??
How the hell do they get away with it?
 
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jim_uk85

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
C'mon man, get in the real world. Or are you being sarcastic, hard to understand. Anyway, just trying to let the guy know, it's not jus a matter of learning how to complete a form or two. Can you agree with that?!
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Absolutely agree, yes. I was been a little sarcastic, though it sadens me to think some ----s are signing dodgy certs and could be putting peoples lives at risk, all this stupid legislation does nothing to protect the customer at the end of the day, I know as I have been heavily involved in heath and safety for years, the **** ive seen is unbelievable.
 
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jim_uk85

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Hmmm....i've only been on the tools about 6 years, but yes I too have seen some awful things. I honestly believe that you should not be allowed to work unsupervised as an electrician until you have completed an apprenticeship and taken and passed the AM2 exam. Theres too many people willing to do this apparent "part p course" or be an adult learner and be on top dollar strolling down easy street.

I served a traditional apprenticeship, and yes I am a little dissapointed that people dont do the 3/4 years graft and expect to walk into a job with no experience get paid the same as myself.
 
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aaronstuart

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Just been assessed by Niceic for 2nd year today....very nerve racking again..didn't get any easier....
Asked my assessor if I could do periodic testing as i haven't got the 2391....
You don't need it and same for the 17th edition qual's ( if you've got the 16th that is ), just as long as you're a competent person.....so basically you can fill in any forms as long as you can show an understanding of the regs...

Like he said if anything happens you are guilty until proven innocent according to the EAW
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Amazing!!!
It wont be long before we can all become heart surgeons to earn a little extra at weekends!!!
 
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montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Sorry but what do you mean?

certs dont mean everything, competency does!
 
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montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
certainly not with 17th lol
 
T

Trouble

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
i am offended the way some of you have had a go at me because of my spelling! i am dislecsic and admitted at the start of the post my spelling was bad and appolagized! just because i have bad spelling and grammer does not mean i am stupid or unable to do an electricians job! just because i havnt done much LV work and am not very knowledgable on some issues doesnt make me stupid! i bet if i was to ask you about prosedures with HV you would strugle too! and considering i am working for a large multi diciplined building services consultance and working on prestigeas projects such as the savoy referbishment etc just shows where you can get if you work hard! i wont be posting on this forum again (for fear of abuse!)

Good bye!
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Dont go mate, stick around, Ive learned a lot here and some of these guys have a hell of a lot of knowledge, you always get people saying silly things on forums that would not have the balls to say in real life, but hey dont go its a really useful forum.
 
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CUDABOY

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
aye, shakeys always yanking my chain!:D we all get on and we all help each other out, no one was born qualified,no one knows it all,stick with it!!! theres a **** load of knowledge here, tap into it!:)
 

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
Just playing Devil's Advocate, How do you define/prove competency.
Companies can base competency partially by qualifications and partially by experience.

You can have all the theory and qualifications but have no practical experience so would you say you are competent?
 
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ezzzekiel

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
my spelling isnt great so i must be a poor electrician too (ffs)

domestic installer is usually the basic requirement, although each registration body tend to have there own quirks, usually you can do a trade test with them to prove competence, then promise to get 17th within first 12 month of regestering ;)

usually require - eic, soi, sotr.... or minor works
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
Trouble, you need your 17th ed and your installation and test cert.
City and guilds 2391 as a minimum.
No he doesnt,2391 is not needed to join the NICEIC domestic installer scheme,i should know i have been one for the last two years.i beleive you can do the EAL domestic installer course but will need 17th regs.ask shakey he will put you right.[/quote]

Paul is correct, 2391 is not required for initial verifications (which you are doing) it is not needed either for PIR's but we've done that conversation many times!:p

Under the Approved Document to Part P of the building regs, you are trying to describe yourself as a category B person, which is someone qualified to complete BS7671 certifcates, but not a memebr of a competent persons scheme.

Whilst the quals are not formally laid down, the minimum quals (for example, for the NIC Domestic installer scheme) are the EAL Domestic Installer VRQ and the 17th edition wiring regs.

these can be completed quite quickly (2 weeks) with a company such as mine, Access Training (forum sponsors)
 

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