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brown noses are more common in the police.
 
Unusual for a cop. And I don't mean a red nose.
Have voted Tory in the past. Never voted labour. Just don’t like being taken for a fool and blatantly lied to by people who are supposedly in public service when others would be sent to prison for doing the same! People are out there ... front line NHS, putting their lives on the line in this crisis with woeful PPE resourcing. Boris may be doing the best he can in the circs and lets hope he is. When the time comes it will be interesting to see if lessons are learned as this will happen again. Funny how you all assume I’m a lilly livered lefty! I’ve spent 30 years locking up (if I’m lucky) lying scumbags! I don’t like hypocritical self interested lying scumbags! I’ll leave the politics now as we have a more serious issue to get through. Take care all.:)
 
I got to disagree there with the “woeful PPE resourcing”
They’ve been run off their feet, using more PPE than is normal and the suppliers have run out.
There just isn’t the manufacturing in place to keep up with demand.
It’s an international problem.
 
Have voted Tory in the past. Never voted labour. Just don’t like being taken for a fool and blatantly lied to by people who are supposedly in public service when others would be sent to prison for doing the same! People are out there ... front line NHS, putting their lives on the line in this crisis with woeful PPE resourcing. Boris may be doing the best he can in the circs and lets hope he is. When the time comes it will be interesting to see if lessons are learned as this will happen again. Funny how you all assume I’m a lilly livered lefty! I’ve spent 30 years locking up (if I’m lucky) lying scumbags! I don’t like hypocritical self interested lying scumbags! I’ll leave the politics now as we have a more serious issue to get through. Take care all.:)

Politicians are all economical with the truth, its part of the nature of the business. Same as bosses can never be honest and speak their mind.

I recall one being honest with me once, talking to me about resourcing levels at peak times. 'Its called risk management; I manage things, you take the risk'. Arse.
 
I got to disagree there with the “woeful PPE resourcing”
They’ve been run off their feet, using more PPE than is normal and the suppliers have run out.
There just isn’t the manufacturing in place to keep up with demand.
It’s an international problem.
I think you’ll find that the government ignored a 2016 report that stated in such scenarios we would be short of PPE and ventilators. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing and I suppose politics is all about gambling that it won’t happen on our watch!
 
I think you’ll find that the government ignored a 2016 report that stated in such scenarios we would be short of PPE and ventilators. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing and I suppose politics is all about gambling that it won’t happen on our watch!

Did they? You have proof that they ignored it I assume?
How long does all this equipment last in storage, and how much should they spend on equipment, maintainence and storage for the 'just in case supplies'

They could have filled a warehouse with ventilators and oxygen concentrators after that 2016 report and now when they pull them out of storage 4 years later half of them don't work because they've been sat idle for so long.
 
Did they? You have proof that they ignored it I assume?
How long does all this equipment last in storage, and how much should they spend on equipment, maintainence and storage for the 'just in case supplies'

They could have filled a warehouse with ventilators and oxygen concentrators after that 2016 report and now when they pull them out of storage 4 years later half of them don't work because they've been sat idle for so long.
Google "Exercise Cygnus", you should find plenty of information and lead you to your own conclusion as to whether our leaders ignored it. I believe ventilators were not even considered in the report.
 
Google "Exercise Cygnus", you should find plenty of information and lead you to your own conclusion as to whether our leaders ignored it. I believe ventilators were not even considered in the report.

I've googled it and found a lot of media articles about it, which are hardly reliable sources of information.
Other information that I've found indicate that it is just a small part of a much wider plan intended to see the NHS through all manner of possible emergencies, including strikes, far worse viruses than this, major accidents, natural disasters, terrorist attacks, fuel shortages and other things.

When I find proper reports on exercise cygnus I'll read up on it further of course.
 
Did they? You have proof that they ignored it I assume?
How long does all this equipment last in storage, and how much should they spend on equipment, maintainence and storage for the 'just in case supplies'

They could have filled a warehouse with ventilators and oxygen concentrators after that 2016 report and now when they pull them out of storage 4 years later half of them don't work because they've been sat idle for so long.
if they were made by Dyson, they,d be broke 3 days after the 12 months warranty expired anyway.
 
I've googled it and found a lot of media articles about it, which are hardly reliable sources of information.
Other information that I've found indicate that it is just a small part of a much wider plan intended to see the NHS through all manner of possible emergencies, including strikes, far worse viruses than this, major accidents, natural disasters, terrorist attacks, fuel shortages and other things.

When I find proper reports on exercise cygnus I'll read up on it further of course.
Finding official reports seems to be difficult, but here is something that may fit the bill:


P29 is where you want to be looking:
 

Bottom of 29,top of 30 seem to suggest to me that it's not a lack of PPE but a lack of knowledge of the supply chain or how to get the PPE from national stockpiles.
 
Well, the PPE isn't there is it. Switch on the news, you'll soon see yet another healthcare professional testifying to that fact.

It's difficult for me to see the government's response to this in a positive light. We all watched the pandemic grow in China, and their people started dropping like flies, and it spread beyond Chinas borders to other nations where their people started dropping like flies, and then it arrived here, and it spread and we all know what is going to happen. It didn't happen overnight. Any simpleton could have predicted this.

Why did our leaders wait until the pandemic had already taken hold here before taking action? Why did they wait until just 2 weeks ago to request industry start thinking about building ventilators, knowing full well how unprepared the NHS is for this. Why have they ordered 10000 ventilators from a company that doesn't build ventilators, when there are companies that do, and are all ready to do so? Why did they miss the deadline for the EU procurement scheme, blaming it on a communications mix up? Why weren't they stockpiling medicine, PPE, and testing kits back in January?
 
I've googled it and found a lot of media articles about it, which are hardly reliable sources of information.

When you say 'media articles' you mean just about every paper out there, including the Tory supporting Sun, Mail, Telegraph and others. Maybe they are not normally the most reliable source generally, and I'm like you I need to check and check before I believe things, especially if it comes from a politician. But unless you are at every cabinet meeting or read every government document then you do have to trust some sources eventually.
Bottom of 29,top of 30 seem to suggest to me that it's not a lack of PPE but a lack of knowledge of the supply chain or how to get the PPE from national stockpiles.
That's just a summary for Rotherham, but you're right, bottom of page 29

Boris Has It ... 1585513724926 - EletriciansForums.net

They've had over 3 years and have failed to do this.
 
Well, the PPE isn't there is it. Switch on the news, you'll soon see yet another healthcare professional testifying to that fact.

It's difficult for me to see the government's response to this in a positive light. We all watched the pandemic grow in China, and their people started dropping like flies, and it spread beyond Chinas borders to other nations where their people started dropping like flies, and then it arrived here, and it spread and we all know what is going to happen. It didn't happen overnight. Any simpleton could have predicted this.

Why did our leaders wait until the pandemic had already taken hold here before taking action? Why did they wait until just 2 weeks ago to request industry start thinking about building ventilators, knowing full well how unprepared the NHS is for this. Why have they ordered 10000 ventilators from a company that doesn't build ventilators, when there are companies that do, and are all ready to do so? Why did they miss the deadline for the EU procurement scheme, blaming it on a communications mix up? Why weren't they stockpiling medicine, PPE, and testing kits back in January?

I don't know if it is there or not, I know that there is a shortage in some places, I don't know where or how widespread the shortage is.

Do we all know what is going to happen? I certainly don't as I cannot see the future, I know what is likely to happen.
A knee jerk reaction trying to force the current lockdown situation a few eeks ago would have been far less effective, after the build up to this many people are still flouting the regulations, looking for loopholes and ways to dodge the rules.
You have to consider the psychology of the general public and what needs to happen for the government to manipulate people into staying at home when they are needed to. A total lockdown out of the blue will be rejected by a lot of people and there simply aren't enough police to enforce it.
They need to build the fear and bring it in gradually otherwise it will not have the desired effect.

I don't know enough about the situation with ventilators, they announced that they were asking industry to produce more a couple of weeks ago, how long before that had they actually started the process? Did they hold back the information from the public to reduce fear and panic.

As far as I know our laboratories created one of the first testing kits back in January, it's pretty hard to stockpile something before it has been invented. The genome of the virus was only published in January, they couldn't do much work on it before that.

What medecine do you suggest they should have stockpiled in January? What medecine did they stockpile?

The studies into the effectiveness of things like hydroxychloroquine aren't complete yet, theyre pushing them through quickly, but studies need to be completed properly.

I believe vaccines were developed within hours of the genome being published but full testing won't be complete for many months yet, they might be done by the end of the year. Testing can't be rushed,
 
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As DS says, what medicine do you say they should have been stockpiling in January?
 
Who's suggested that they should have stockpiled medicine? no one as far as I'm aware, certainly not me.
Where on earth did that come from?
 
As DS says, what medicine do you say they should have been stockpiling in January?

Well 6 patients given hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin recovered quickly in a study of 30 patients in China which I think was published sometime in February.
Maybe we should have stockpiled that in January?
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Who's suggested that they should have stockpiled medicine? no one as far as I'm aware, certainly not me.
Where on earth did that come from?

Post number 34, last sentence.
 

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