carbon monoxide

[jason121]

Talking to guy yesterday who cancelled his biomass boiler due to the pellets giving of carbon monoxide. Anyone heard of this.

 

[gutterball]

What does most fuels we burn give off? That's what the CO detector if for.

 

[telectrix]

my pellets give off methane and hydrogen sulphide.

 

[jason121]

Before they are burned. While still in hopper

 

[gutterball]

ok a quick google finds this Risk of carbon monoxide release during the storage of wood pellets

 

[jason121]

Do you fit biomass gutterball

 

[gutterball]

No I don't do any of that sort of thing. I worked in a sawmill before I became a electrician and all the waste bark,chippings and sawdust was stored in hoppers and this is the first I've heard of it giving off CO. The only warnings were for the sawdust exploding with a naked flame because of the airborne dust.

 

[UNG]

ok a quick google finds this Risk of carbon monoxide release during the storage of wood pellets

Some food for thought reading that link certainly not what you would expect from what is essentially wood storage before it is burnt

 

[The Solar King]

This is known risk. There has been one fatality in the EU and one near miss in Southern Ireland. Risk is with recently delivered pellets in bulk. Do not climb in a hopper without a second person in support. Ventilate hopper before entry. Check CO before starting work.

As with any risk, if properly assessed and managed, it is then minimised.

 

[Gavin A]

I'm was very concerned that it's taken a customer to bring this to your attention, as this risk should be hammered home to all biomass installers at their training and assessment. So I checked the MCS 3004 biomass standard, and am both shocked and scared that this isn't mentioned in their once.

Key hazards of biomass systems are:-

1 - CO build up in the hopper - note CO rises, so vents need to be at the top to vent it, and CO alarms also need to be at the top of the room / pellet hopper.
2 - Dust explosions during the filling of a pellet hopper via static charge if the metal feed pipes aren't earthed.

Both are hazards that could kill your installers, the customer, or the bloke filling the hopper if the risk isn't properly mitigated.

Mitigation measures would include vents at the top of the hopper (with dust filter), and ventilation to the storeroom and boiler room, and CO alarm close to the door to the hopper at height (if the hopper is in a room), or portable CO alarm / meter for outdoor hoppers, and warning sign on the door to the hopper warning people of the danger, and the need to ventilate the store well before entering the store and keep the door open while in the store.

Dust explosions... earth the filling pipe(s).

Good job the industry has MCS to issue strict guidance to see us all right isn't it.

 

[Worcester]

I'm was very concerned that it's taken a customer to bring this to your attention, as this risk should be hammered home to all biomass installers at their training and assessment. So I checked the MCS 3004 biomass standard, and am both shocked and scared that this isn't mentioned in their once.

Key hazards of biomass systems are:-

1 - CO build up in the hopper - note CO rises, so vents need to be at the top to vent it, and CO alarms also need to be at the top of the room / pellet hopper.
2 - Dust explosions during the filling of a pellet hopper via static charge if the metal feed pipes aren't earthed.

Both are hazards that could kill your installers, the customer, or the bloke filling the hopper if the risk isn't properly mitigated.

Mitigation measures would include vents at the top of the hopper (with dust filter), and ventilation to the storeroom and boiler room, and CO alarm close to the door to the hopper at height (if the hopper is in a room), or portable CO alarm / meter for outdoor hoppers, and warning sign on the door to the hopper warning people of the danger, and the need to ventilate the store well before entering the store and keep the door open while in the store.

Dust explosions... earth the filling pipe(s).

Good job the industry has MCS to issue strict guidance to see us all right isn't it.

I must admit I had presumed everybody new this !!! - It is something we drill into our customers - don't go in the hopper!

Perhaps my knowledge about the storage issue came from my construction experience - we had safety in confined spaces especially sewers and the required ventilation (methane / the old budgie test from miners updated) requirements drummed into us before we even left college. I am sure it was also covered on our biomass course, though can't find anything about in our HETAS and Bpec notes..

Also of course you need a CO alarm for the boiler - In fact the presence of a CO alarm has been checked on all our MCS Biomass audits (It is a key Building Regulations Requirement with its own section after all (J3) )

We only install mains powered CO alarms (yes they cost 2-3 times as much plus a lot more to install) Honeywell SF340f Hard Wired mains Carbon Monoxide Detector Alarm Interconnect !! | eBay and if possible also hook them up to the house alarms systems (you can get them with zero volt contacts), there again our installations are never the cheapest.

p.s. The Department of Health estimates that 50 people are killed by carbon monoxide poisoning, and at least 4,000 are treated in hospital, in the UK each year.. The figures for the last 10 years show that 50% of deaths were due to gas appliances and 30% to solid fuel appliances. - Conclusion ANYTHING that burns is dangerous... yet how many houses with gas boilers do you know of that have a CO alarm? No need for scaremongering, just education