Dodgy SWA cable

[Sintra]

I think we have installed a dodgy BS6724 4 x 150mm SWA cable.

This cable was purchased through a national wholesaler but appears to be of a poor quality noticably the outer insulation. Problem is it was delivered to site on Friday evening, lifted onto the roof yesterday morning and installed straight away. Cable runs straight down a service riser from the roof level and goes down 9 floors to the basement where it sweeps through 90 degrees to go to the switch room. At this point the outer insulation split badly exposing the wire armouring. This morning I have visually inspected the cable throughout its entire length and noticed that every couple of meters there is a uniform score on the outer insulation approx 300mm long and that there are no visible BASEC or any embossed markings for that matter on the insulation. I am beginning to think this a dodgy cable, has anyone else come across anything similar?

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[Octopus]

I'd be interested to hear what the supplier says

 

[Sintra]

I'd be interested to hear what the supplier says

Yea so will I because the only way this thing is coming out again is in bits lol. Then it will cost another £7000 to get a crane and a road closure etc. to get a new drum up to the roof.

 

[GMES]

It does sound suspect Sintra as you say it is an hell of a job to replace! but all costs would need to be covered by wholesaler is it a large wholesaler or an independent. you will also want some form of compensation for all the inconvenience that you suffer

 

[Rockingit]

As above, but I guess the first question you'll be asked is why wasn't it spotted earlier in the install and could it have been damaged when it was run out. Of course, the fact it isn't BASEC stamped does leave them with very little room to wriggle.

That being said - take a look at this cut length of 16mm that I got shipped last year, I refuse to believe that someone didn't spot it when they were coiling it up for delivery!!



Amazingly it tested absolutely fine, so we just chopped that end off and used it anyway as we were up against a deadline, but still....

 

[SPARTYKUS]

As above, but I guess the first question you'll be asked is why wasn't it spotted earlier in the install and could it have been damaged when it was run out. Of course, the fact it isn't BASEC stamped does leave them with very little room to wriggle.

That being said - take a look at this cut length of 16mm that I got shipped last year, I refuse to believe that someone didn't spot it when they were coiling it up for delivery!!

View attachment 22497View attachment 22498View attachment 22499

Amazingly it tested absolutely fine, so we just chopped that end off and used it anyway as we were up against a deadline, but still....

its got a hernia

 

[Sintra]

It does sound suspect Sintra as you say it is an hell of a job to replace! but all costs would need to be covered by wholesaler is it a large wholesaler or an independent. you will also want some form of compensation for all the inconvenience that you suffer

It was supplied by one of the largest if not the largest wholesalers in the UK.

 

[Kate]

Replaced cable, all costs for reinstalling including man hours. Gunna cost a bomb. Tell them about job deadline that it needs sorting asap or they pay the penalty fees that must be on the job contract.

 

[Sintra]

As above, but I guess the first question you'll be asked is why wasn't it spotted earlier in the install and could it have been damaged when it was run out. Of course, the fact it isn't BASEC stamped does leave them with very little room to wriggle.

In hindsight yes it should have been checked pre install. There are still around 11 laps of cable left on the drum on the roof and it has the same damage so hopefully this will prove it was not damaged by installing.

 

[Plonker 3]

Sounds like you will get a good drink out of the tat then

 

[Sintra]

Replaced cable, all costs for reinstalling including man hours. Gunna cost a bomb. Tell them about job deadline that it needs sorting asap or they pay the penalty fees that must be on the job contract.

The only saving grace is that i'm not that pushed for time on it. Only reason it was put in so early was because we had a crane in to lift the genny and air handlers etc. on to the roof yesterday. Suppose there's no harm in telling them a little white lie though

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like you will get a good drink out of the tat then

That could be advantageous

 

[telectrix]

just wrap some black tape round it if it's a council job.

 

[Sintra]

just wrap some black tape round it if it's a council job.

I wish lol the electrical consultant in this place is ---- hot.

 

[Octopus]

I wish lol the electrical consultant in this place is ---- hot.

Nice - maybe he should offer his services to the schemes and do some spot checks on installs around and about!

 

[Rockingit]

I wish lol the electrical consultant in this place is ---- hot.

Nice to see a mod getting around the swear filter..... :35:

 

[Sintra]

Nice to see a mod getting around the swear filter..... :35:

Had to check this was in the arms lol otherwise I would have been issuing myself an infraction

 

[Plonker 3]

There is a mod a football forum I go on that actually managed to ban himself.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

There is a mod a football forum I go on that actually managed to ban himself.

Hes not called Tony Butler is he

 

[Plonker 3]

No, don't tell there is more than one that has managed it in the past lol

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I do Tonys electrics. Jeez he's a character. No end of stories.

 

[Marvo]

If there'sstill some on the roll that's also damaged then you should have a good case for a claim. It's a substantial split in the outer sheath, how come nobody noticed as it was being installed?

 

[Sintra]

If there'sstill some on the roll that's also damaged then you should have a good case for a claim. It's a substantial split in the outer sheath, how come nobody noticed as it was being installed?

TBH the split only happened when the cable got to the basement and had to change direction. It looked fine as it was coming down the riser in a straight line.

 

[Richard Burns]

That sort of damage sound like it was done when it was wound onto the reel, at a certain point on the reel something was slicing into the SWA sheath. I wonder if your supplier has discovered a damaged winding machine?

 

[Engineer54]

I wish lol the electrical consultant in this place is ---- hot.

As he should be!! lol!!

 

[Silly Sausage]

As he should be!! lol!!

Morning Eng,

If this happened on one of your projects, who would you hold responsible?

 

[Engineer54]

Bring the wholesalers representative to site along with their insurance assessor. Also get the project consultant, to confirm that cable damage was/is a pre-existing defect in the delivered material.

I have often helped the contractors on all of projects i've worked on in similar situations. It's often proved to carry some weight with both suppliers and manufacturers alike...

 

[Engineer54]

Morning Eng,

If this happened on one of your projects, who would you hold responsible?

To be honest, i tend to check all major cable deliveries coming onto site against contract spec's and invoice data before allowing into the cable storage yard area. So if there were no markings of any type on the cable sheath, i'd of been asking some questions that would need to have documentary and satisfactory answers too.

 

[Knobhead]

Had it many years ago. A drum of 185 3½c the serving was split at regular intervals.
The really annoying thing is we had the cable made to order to suit M&Q with 1 in every 5 armours copper.

 

[Andy78]

I have experienced this type of splitting before too. Exactly the same type of split where the cable started to take a bend. It split at the bend after it was left to settle, so it might not have come off the drum like that. It wasn't rived round the corner with force, it wasn't cold on site, and it was held with appropriate cleats.

It turned out that it was some cheap Indian crap that was doing the rounds and we got the wholesaler (large national chain too) to replace it. The outer sheath, on inspection, was made out of some horrible waxy brittle stuff that just couldn't take the bending. If I remember right it had ELECTRIC KABLE written along it.

The customer was not happy and we not long after lost the work at that factory plant.

There was a rash of this a few years back where the whole countrywide supply chain got tainted with this crap. In another instance, I remember my then boss having to take a foot section of 95mm 4C ( as printed on the cable ) that he had stripped off and put 70mm lugs on, back to a branch managers desk to get a refund and a labour bill out of him.

 

[Knobhead]

Some formed 95mm you can get 70mm lugs on. Confused the hell out of me when I ordered a roll of HD singes. Instead of 19 strands it was 7 and tight rolled to form it. turned out to be lovely stuff to work with, but being HD it was a sod to crimp.

 

[Andy78]

Some formed 95mm you can get 70mm lugs on. Confused the hell out of me when I ordereda roll of HD singes. Instead of 19 strands it was 7 and tight rolled to form it. turned out to be lovely stuff to work with, but being HD it was a sod to crimp.

I would have definitely smelled a rat if it was pre-scorched

The stuff we had was definitely wrong. The 70mm lugs flew on the triangular form without manipulation, and the 95mm lugs rattled about on it. The insulation was also so badly made, it was that thin in places it was see through ! The armourings were not tightly enough wrapped so that they bird caged out in places.
Some very dodgy stuff indeed.

 

[Sintra]

I have experienced this type of splitting before too. Exactly the same type of split where the cable started to take a bend. It split at the bend after it was left to settle, so it might not have come off the drum like that. It wasn't rived round the corner with force, it wasn't cold on site, and it was held with appropriate cleats.

It turned out that it was some cheap Indian crap that was doing the rounds and we got the wholesaler (large national chain too) to replace it. The outer sheath, on inspection, was made out of some horrible waxy brittle stuff that just couldn't take the bending. If I remember right it had ELECTRIC KABLE written along it.

The customer was not happy and we not long after lost the work at that factory plant.

There was a rash of this a few years back where the whole countrywide supply chain got tainted with this crap. In another instance, I remember my then boss having to take a foot section of 95mm 4C ( as printed on the cable ) that he had stripped off and put 70mm lugs on, back to a branch managers desk to get a refund and a labour bill out of him.

Andy this sounds exactly like the stuff I have. Anyway had the area manager of the supplier round today and they are replacing the cable FOC and paying all associated costs with reinstalling it. And the bonus is he only took a 500mm cutting away with him. Let's hope the scrappy doesn't want to analyse the copper content

 

[Andy78]

All good then. Time to invest in some Stanley and hacksaw blades then.

 

[Marvo]

Great news, glad they're taking the claim and the extra install work. Sounds like Christmas might be coming early this year

Mines a babycham

 

[Sintra]

Great news, glad they're taking the claim and the extra install work. Sounds like Christmas might be coming early this year

Mines a babycham

By the time it's split between the guys on site we should have around 15 meters each lol so I'm sure I could manage to get a round in

Not chopping anything yet until I get an email stating they aren't wanting back lol.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Great result !, will keep my eyes peeled,