Gromets when do you use yours?

[mrmatt]

after a lengthy discussion with a friend I would like to hear when and how you use gromets.

do you use them in knock out boxes?
do you use with consumer units?
do you use them with .......

do you always use them?

let the discussion begin

 

[Richard]

Florries quite often.

 

[Guest123]

after a lengthy discussion with a friend I would like to hear when and how you use gromets.

do you use them in knock out boxes?
Yes.
do you use with consumer units?
Metalclad ones yes, or grommet strip.
do you use them with .......

do you always use them?
Pretty much.

let the discussion begin

The use of cable grommets could be one way of complying with 522.8.11

 

[Adam W]

I use them wherever a cable comes out of a metal hole, which encompasses KO boxes, trunking, metal adaptable boxes etc.
I'll use them with plastic fittings if I've got a box of them to hand or if the edge feels sharp, if not I'd just cut off any potentially abrasive bits with a knife.

 

[Sintra]

Same as Lenny pretty much always. There is no reason not to use them as the cost and time to fit is minimal.

 

[mrmatt]

I usually use them too but how often do you remove a socket face to find none used?

I rarely find them

 

[flukey]

its good practice to use them and i always do but your right its very rare to find them on existing installs

 

[mrmatt]

so what do you prefer cutting your own hole in the closedtype or do you prefer the open type. I usually prefer the closed type

 

[DurhamSparky]

9/10 i use them!!

 

[Adam W]

Depends on the situation - usually I much prefer the open ones because the factory manufactured hole is a lot neater; I only really use blind grommets to seal a hole cut in the wrong place or to seal around the grommet, eg in the top of trunking. For flex I prefer to use stuffing glands.

 

[Phil]

all the time when needed yeh.

 

[nickblake]

All the time when needed , have used a wallace once not as good

 

[rocker]

Always use them whenever theres a hole in metal.

 

[DurhamSparky]

All the time when needed , have used a wallace once not as good

 

[Dean Williams]

is it a regulation to use them, today while doing a new install cert, found that our electrician hadnt used them on backboxes in a wall, he said it didnt matter.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It is generally considered uneccessary to use grommets on knock out boxes, if the cables are securely fixed in plaster.

 

[Marvo]

I'm not a fan of grommets, they are prone to coming adrift easily. I use glands or a brass bush (we stock 20-100mm) with a locknut and ring if it's a hole in a steel or metalic enclosure. If it's plastic boxes we use a male adaptor onto conduit or kopex

 

[kevben]

I can't believe that you have asked this question! It really does my head in when somebody has been so lazy to fit grommets. Tells me they are either a kitchen fitter, plumber or just a 2 week course jobby. For true sparky's you don't even think about it - just like putting a seat belt on or brushing your teeth - it's just what you have to do!!!!!
For you to even bring this up has ****ed me off NO END!!!!!

 

[Des 56]

It is generally considered uneccessary to use grommets on knock out boxes, if the cables are securely fixed in plaster.

I would dis agree with that statement 100%

More than likely it is generally considered that they are necessary, or at least the best way of minimising potential damage to the installation whilst installing cables through a sharp metal entry

Admittedly,once they are installed, and fixed in position by the plaster, there is little to be gained,but even so it ought to be considered, at the least, good practice

 

[kevben]

DES 56 are you taking the ****!! I am not one for a arguement but for you to say you disagree 100%!!!!!!
It has nothing to do with the plasterer - CAN'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE SAID THIS!!!!
As a sparky it is YOUR resposibility to comply with the Regs not any other trade.
It takes 1 second to do, **** all to do with good practice!!!!!!

 

[Dean Williams]

i always fit grommets, always have. the reason i asked the question is because i want to know whether it IS A REQUIREMENT to fit them, not just good practice, common sense etc. can i put it as an observation while doing a periodic, should i give my colleagues a kick up the --- or is it just one of those bones of contention, an argument that never ends...

 

[sjhall]

Good practice to fit them but IIRC not a requirment .Ste

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Read Lenny's comment at #3, this is the main reason for using grommets or are there hero's religiously de-burring every hole for the sake of saving on the cost of a grommet. I regularly quote 522.8.11 on PIRs when grommets are omitted.

 

[telectrix]

I can't believe that you have asked this question! It really does my head in when somebody has been so lazy to fit grommets. Tells me they are either a kitchen fitter, plumber or just a 2 week course jobby. For true sparky's you don't even think about it - just like putting a seat belt on or brushing your teeth - it's just what you have to do!!!!!
For you to even bring this up has ****ed me off NO END!!!!!

what's a seat belt? is it getting a shock when sitting ?

 

[Silly Sausage]

I can't believe that you have asked this question! .................. ****ed me off NO END!!!!!

Hahaha...say it like it is kb. I agree, grommet or a gland everytime.

 

[JamesBrownLive]

DES 56 are you taking the ****!! I am not one for a arguement but for you to say you disagree 100%!!!!!!
It has nothing to do with the plasterer - CAN'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE SAID THIS!!!!
As a sparky it is YOUR resposibility to comply with the Regs not any other trade.
It takes 1 second to do, **** all to do with good practice!!!!!!

I think if you re-read what Des has said you will see that he is in fact agreeing with you. He is talking about their lack of movement due to them being fixed in the plaster, not fixed by the Plasterer.

He is saying they should always be used, as I believe, are you.

 

[Des 56]

DES 56 are you taking the ****!! I am not one for a arguement but for you to say you disagree 100%!!!!!!
It has nothing to do with the plasterer - CAN'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE SAID THIS!!!!
As a sparky it is YOUR resposibility to comply with the Regs not any other trade.
It takes 1 second to do, **** all to do with good practice!!!!!!

I cant believe I said it either
I do believe you have read my post differently to what intended it to convey and have got old of the wrong end of the stick

On the point of reading a post incorrectly,I quoted spinlondon and think I did the same with that post

Spinlondon said
It is generally considered uneccessary to use grommets on knock out boxes, if the cables are securely fixed in plaster.

It now reads to me that he is saying the same as what I intended,i am sorry for mis understanding that post

My view,I always without fail fit grommetts

It is waste of time fitting them after the plaster has set.it is worth fitting them before the cables are inserted

Attempting to fit them after the plaster has set could,in fact, cause damage to the cable

 

[nickblake]

mis read post i think des i will always grommit and allways will last assesment the assesor checked wether i had used grommits something so cheap and so easy to install pain in the butt still a nessesity to protectthe cables

 

[madmac]

IMO, this is an absolute basic requirement and is learnt at first year apprentice level, so for anyone on here, other than a boy, to even ask if this is a requirement is quite frankly either having a laugh or not fully trained/aware of all aspects and basic standards of practice/workmanship required in the electrical arena!

 

[paturback]

The use of cable grommets could be one way of complying with 522.8.11

I totally agree Lenny, but after watching one those nic dvds on PIR's where "Tony" stated that because the wiring was fixed embedded in the plaster he wouldn't mark it as a deviation on his PIR its hardly surprising that many are left confused.

I was taught to always use them with K/O boxes so thats what I do.

 

[sparks_114]

"Attempting to fit them after the plaster has set could,in fact, cause damage to the cable"

On PIR for Nic the gaffer would always make me fit grommets if they were missing and I too have never, ever, installed a metallic backbox without grommets. I did, and do, find it surprising that even after so many years of grommet fitting (15 years in the trade) that I'd come across with so many without. We'd always use oval conduit too and likewise never buried cables directly with plaster. I was taught to be a sparky where 30 years down the line someone would stumble upon my install and comment on what a great job I'd done. It's good (if not statutory) to meet the regs, even better to surpass it at times.

 

[Baconhead]

I recentley did a call centre with over 90 double floor sockets,Original job was to correct a reversed polarity on a UPS socket having done it i noticed that grommets missing and as it was wired in singles the cables had chaffed on entry to the box.
So i ended up checking all sockets on 3 floors to fit grommets and they all needed them and some cables had nearly gone through the insulation.

So as a matter of course i will allways fit them REG or no REG.

 

[kevben]

Hi Des, just read through posts and think i went a bit over the top and i apologise for my lingo.

I still stand by my anger that a thread such as this should be brought up on this forum. We all know that there are cowboys out there but i would like to think the members on this forum are not. Also i appreciate that some members are new to the trade and need educating. However threads such as these are wasting all are time.

Sorry i got involved but it is something that has done my head in for a long time.
(i'm over it now though :sultan: will still sleep well tonight)

 

[ezzzekiel]

Hi Des, just read through posts and think i went a bit over the top

yep you certainly did!!

and there is nothing wrong with the ops post, fitting groms in backboxes is a basic task we carry out however it is often on posts like these that you learn new interesting tips and tricks and new uses for things you use every day.

 

[malcolmsanford]

No just to play the devils advocate here, if on a domestic PIR that as been installed for let us say 15 yrs, you open a socket and find that a back box did not have a grommit. You check the cable sheath and find no signs of damage to the cable, why do you

1. Try and fit a grommit

2. Code it.

If you then opened up a light switch and found one of the older 16mm back boxes that instead of having the 20mm knock-outs, it used the larger oval entry hole, as above there is no sign of damage to the sheath, again

1. Would you fit some kind of grommit protection

2. Would you code it.

IMO there is a difference between "sharp" and "Thin" edges as reg 522.8.11 alludes to. A sharp edge IMO is caused by cutting or drilling a piece of steel and should be filed and de-burred. A knockout on a box to me is not sharp and so is the reg the relevant one in this case.