It's getting worse

[sean_ork]

At least this one is vaguely related to the topic :boxing_smiley:

https://youtu.be/2rr9k6WY4T4

 

[Darkwood]

Have you edited the thread fella? because I cannot see any problems so far.

Just a bit of preventative pro active posting,it was heading that way, temp's were starting to rise although as I wrote the post it got back on track but already posted so ill leave as a reminder.

Although what Michael bubble has to do with it other than he wants shooting IMHO ...Ahhhh now I see the relation to the topic :christmaswindow:

 

[Guest77]

Time to stop hijacking this thread Tel, I think a christmas thread which will pi$$ everyone off needs putting up in the chitchat haha

 

[GMES]

Hiya Mike yeah start a xmas thread and let's all get in the spirit.

 

[Englishman]

First argument thread that I've not been told off by the mods! Haha.

 

[telectrix]

must be making allowances, being as you're from slurry.

 

[Englishman]

Doesn't normally make a difference haha.

And I'm actually born and bred in central London, just live in the beautiful Surrey now.

 

[Midwest]

Don't count your chickens, I think your on your own lol

If your on about routinely arming all police officers, you've read my posts, can you give me your arguments on the contrary.


PS If we are all agreed to drop the subject, please feel free to ignore.

 

[Octopus]

Glen unfortunately it is something that is more and more likely to happen. Less than 5 yrs ago you would never have seen police in a station with weapons, now at most main line stations in London they are quite prevalent.

I think within the next 2 yrs most squad cars will have firearms in them, if not already.

There ARE more armed officers around than most of us think already!

 

[Octopus]

Doesn't normally make a difference haha.

And I'm actually born and bred in central London, just live in the beautiful Surrey now.

Until is all built over and ALL the roads are logged jammed

 

[Flanders]

I agree we should have armed police but not every police officers from what i seen the tazzer did do its job ,remember after 7/7 the police shot an innocent man aleast with a tazzer if they shoot the wrong man or women ,they will live to tell the tail , they have now posted extra armed police on the tube

 

[GMES]

I don't want to see any innocent people getting shot by the police but the issue for me is if a police officer responds to a call about a terrorist brandishing an ak47 I don't think it's fair to send him in with stun gun, for one thing he will need to get a lot closer to the gunman which leaves the officer in even more Danger, personally for me I think he would need to stop him from a safer distance.

 

[Englishman]

Until is all built over and ALL the roads are logged jammed

Biggest problem in my roads are cyclists and people who refuse to drive anywhere near the speed limit!

No buildings in my Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty

 

[Flanders]

I don't want to see any innocent people getting shot by the police but the issue for me is if a police officer responds to a call about a terrorist brandishing an ak47 I don't think it's fair to send him in with stun gun, for one thing he will need to get a lot closer to the gunman which leaves the officer in even more Danger, personally for me I think he would need to stop him from a safer distance.

Do you not feel with have enough armed respose teams already for this ,

 

[Paul.M]

Do you not feel with have enough armed response teams already for this ,

I'd like to have more of them tbh. Lets look at Friday nights attack and who responded first? Policemen only armed with tazers, thank God that the "attacker" was not carrying a gun!!!

 

[GMES]

Do you not feel with have enough armed respose teams already for this ,

If I am honest mate I don't what the numbers are for armed vs unarmed

I'd like to have more of them tbh. Lets look at Friday nights attack and who responded first? Policemen only armed with tazers, thank God that the "attacker" was not carrying a gun!!!

Spot on Paul and my point entirely, what chance would the officer have had and then the terrorist would have been free to attack even more civilians.

 

[Flanders]

You make a good point but how far do we go how many police do we arm just london , just the major city's or every town and vilage these attacks could happen any ware , i guess its all down to money do we spend it on intergance or guns , the police have guns in france and still those terible attacks happened .

 

[telectrix]

Biggest problem in my roads are cyclists and people who refuse to drive anywhere near the speed limit!

No buildings in my Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty

you must live in a cave, then. :28:

 

[Flanders]

There were 129,584 full-time equivalent ( FTE ) police officers in the 43 police forces of England and Wales as at 31 March 2013. This is a decrease of 3.4% or 4,516 officers compared to a year earlier (Table 1 and 3). There were 6,537 FTE Minority Ethnic officers in the 43 forces of England and Wales.

There were 6,868 authorised firearms officers in England and Wales as of 31 March 2009, according to government figures.

If I am honest mate I don't what the numbers are for armed vs unarmed


Just some info i got of the google i know some it is old data so just a quick guide about 5 % of the police are armed tbo i thought it would be hire

 

[Pete999]

You mean higher, or rent a cop

 

[sean_ork]

Nearly all French plod carry semi automatic sidearms, whereas our plod carry a notepad and pencil.

There's also the semi military national plod all over the place in France - did easy access to all that firepower help ?

 

[Barry White]

Do you not feel with have enough armed respose teams already for this ,

Not long ago our police strugled to control an armed taxi driver in Cumbria. I hope we now have more armed officers Trained to respond quickly.

 

[Barry White]

Nearly all French plod carry semi automatic sidearms, whereas our plod carry a notepad and pencil.

There's also the semi military national plod all over the place in France - did easy access to all that firepower help ?

Yes I think it did they were able to respond quicker and save lives. without them the gunmen could have run wild killing 100s more.

 

[Marvo]

The arresting officer did fine with just a tazer. How would armed police have changed the outcome here? The innocent victim guy would still have been stabbed, the perpetrator may have been shot but that doesn't really help because people in a frame of mind that drives them to kill innocents really don't care if they live or die so armed police is no deterrent. Either way armed police wouldn't have made life any safer for the innocent victims and same goes for all the recent attacks.

No amount of police with guns is going to prevent even one of these types of attack, it's just a fact. No amount of intelligence gathering is going to stop them, it's not an organisation with structure. The politicians give it a name because it makes it sound like a single organisation that can be controlled, attacked or neutralised, it isn't and it can't, it's not a conventional war against an enemy in one place with one leader, these are just individuals or small autonomous groups who have suffered under the foreign and possibly even domestic policies of other countries and are at the point they feel they have nothing left to lose. They're bound together more by the global media reports of each others actions than by a common leader or cause.

Maybe you've just got to get used to this as a way of life.

 

[Flanders]

Post removed

 

[Flanders]

Not long ago our police strugled to control an armed taxi driver in Cumbria. I hope we now have more armed officers Trained to respond quickly.

This is what we nead in this debate to convince people like me that police carrying guns is a good idea, saying that i still feel all the poluce having guns would not stop or prevent terrorism

 

[GMES]

At least if he had been shot dead we wouldn't now have to pay to keep him in a cushy prison for the rest of his life and no doubt pay to keep his family in the country.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I have absoloutely no respect or sympathy for these people.

 

[sean_ork]

Yes I think it did they were able to respond quicker and save lives. without them the gunmen could have run wild killing 100s more.

It helped contain them, that's all - to defeat a man with a big stick you need a bigger stick, its just a downward slope of violence back to the wild wild West - that might please the Trump chap, am not sure the threat really warrants that degree of militarisation of the police.

So i'm still waiting to be convinced by some compelling evidence to the contrary.

 

[hightower]

Joining the party late. Not sure arming police officers is the answer, but agree with some sentiments that we need to be able to deal with terrorism in a harsher way. Whether that means death penalty for those we catch is another discussion altogether, but holding them in a prison cell is a waste of resources and still poses a security risk. I'd put money on a good few we have locked up still pulling strings from the 'prison' we hold them in.

 

[Barry White]

I totally agree armed police wont stop terrorists its how we react to them that counts.imagine been in the middle of a city armed with an AK47 who is going to stop you killing untill the bullets run dry?
Its happening now and it will happen here in a town near you soon. We need to be prepared and to react quickly to terrorists to limit the death toll.

 

[Barry White]

It helped contain them, that's all - to defeat a man with a big stick you need a bigger stick, its just a downward slope of violence back to the wild wild West - that might please the Trump chap, am not sure the threat really warrants that degree of militarisation of the police.

So i'm still waiting to be convinced by some compelling evidence to the contrary.

Without the " Bigger stick" our police would be powerless. Would you tackle a man with a knife,gun or Ak47 without a stick of equal size ? would you expect a police officer to do it?
We are far to soft on terrorists they kill we imprison its time the tables were turned.
Give our police the tools they need to do there job.

 

[amlu]

Theres more and more crazy people on the streets.
tv and ads are blaring with newer and shinier ways of blowing your money, there is a big and shiny westfield store 2 miles from here, you feel like a boss (but only if you walk in with a full wallet)
but you have no job (unless you want to go work in tesco or poundland on minimum wage) or sit on benefits.
some turn to crime (lots of kids around here run around with drugs and knives)
some slip out and get mad.
then some call it terrorism. but it maybe its a big mess up in the society.
i live one station away from Leytonstone,
been doing jobs for Muslim customers, no problems at all. (really tight with the funds , but at least they pay, unlike plenty from my part of the world)
They been here for a while, most got a good business around
and they not looking for trouble.

america does not help, they come and started bombing the sh*t out of middle east ,maybe there was a regional dictator in place,maybe he was not a good guy but at least he kept control over all that mess.

 

[sean_ork]

Without the " Bigger stick" our police would be powerless. Would you tackle a man with a knife,gun or Ak47 without a stick of equal size ? would you expect a police officer to do it?
We are far to soft on terrorists they kill we imprison its time the tables were turned.
Give our police the tools they need to do there job.

So arm all plod with assault rifles? all of them ? all over the Country ?

What happens when they start lobbing a few grenades and pipe bombs around ? - what happens if they just start planting bombs ?

I dread to think how much the above would cost - why aren't we stopping them talking to each other ? stop them getting food and munitions.

they appear to have an endless supply of new Toyota pickups

Throw the numerous hate preachers out with the dirty dishwater, help those prone to radicalisation by giving them a purpose in life

Let's do the effective stuff, not just the visually appeasing stuff that simply panders to our urge for vengeance

 

[sean_ork]

Spot on Amlu, well put

 

[Marvo]

Without the " Bigger stick" our police would be powerless. Would you tackle a man with a knife,gun or Ak47 without a stick of equal size ? would you expect a police officer to do it?
We are far to soft on terrorists they kill we imprison its time the tables were turned.
Give our police the tools they need to do there job.

The UK police force has always been the envy of the rest of the world, it's a model that many have studied and attempted to implement elsewhere. It's a tiered system with the humble beat bobby at the base and many levels all the way up to flying squads and highly trained and well equipped tactical armed response units. It's a classic case of what you see isn't necessarily what you'll get, if a beat officer requests tactical response it's on the scene in less than a couple of minutes. The beauty of the system is you still have police that interact with the public, they help old ladies across the road and they cuddle babies but not far behind that public-friendly exterior there are teeth, the criminals know it and the beat bobbies rely on it.

How is it better to arm the beat bobbies and lose that interaction with the public? Look at the police in other countries like the US, it's an us and them mentality and I don't mean between the police and the criminals, I mean between the police and the rest of the population.

 

[Barry White]

So arm all plod with assault rifles? all of them ? all over the Country ?

What happens when they start lobbing a few grenades and pipe bombs around ? - what happens if they just start planting bombs ?

I dread to think how much the above would cost - why aren't we stopping them talking to each other ? stop them getting food and munitions.

they appear to have an endless supply of new Toyota pickups

Throw the numerous hate preachers out with the dirty dishwater, help those prone to radicalisation by giving them a purpose in life

Let's do the effective stuff, not just the visually appeasing stuff that simply panders to our urge for vengeance

They have already planted bombs (usually on there chests)
Grenades carn't be thrown once a bullet hits them (tell me another way to stop this)
The Toyota SUVs well Isis control OILFIELDS so they buy them on the black market £££££££ talks

We are doing the other "stuff" also ie Bombing oilfields and supply routes Taking out there infrastructure.
Radicalisation well I dont believe a grown man can be radicalised it must be instilled in them as children (just my oppinion)

And for the record I work with muslims some of which I call friends not just work coleagues. Most blame Isis but some just blame the Americans.

 

[Barry White]

The UK police force has always been the envy of the rest of the world, it's a model that many have studied and attempted to implement elsewhere. It's a tiered system with the humble beat bobby at the base and many levels all the way up to flying squads and highly trained and well equipped tactical armed response units. It's a classic case of what you see isn't necessarily what you'll get, if a beat officer requests tactical response it's on the scene in less than a couple of minutes. The beauty of the system is you still have police that interact with the public, they help old ladies across the road and they cuddle babies but not far behind that public-friendly exterior there are teeth, the criminals know it and the beat bobbies rely on it.

How is it better to arm the beat bobbies and lose that interaction with the public? Look at the police in other countries like the US, it's an us and them mentality and I don't mean between the police and the criminals, I mean between the police and the rest of the population.

I sort of agree with you Marvo but times have changed it would be impractible to arm and train every police officer but nevertheless we need more armed responce units and not just handguns.
You can fight fire with water but sometimes you need to fight it with fire.

 

[sean_ork]

You can fight fire with water but sometimes you need to fight it with fire.

I'm assuming you are aware of the "black lives count" campaign in the US and the numerous events that led to it ?

That's where we are heading if the police are given free rein to kill, and its exactly what ISIS want.

 

[amlu]

They have already planted bombs (usually on there chests)
Grenades carn't be thrown once a bullet hits them (tell me another way to stop this)
The Toyota SUVs well Isis control OILFIELDS so they buy them on the black market £££££££ talks

We are doing the other "stuff" also ie Bombing oilfields and supply routes Taking out there infrastructure.
Radicalisation well I dont believe a grown man can be radicalised it must be instilled in them as children (just my oppinion)

And for the record I work with muslims some of which I call friends not just work coleagues. Most blame Isis but some just blame the Americans.

Young listen to what some radical crazie says in the local mosque and go blow themselves out.
Older and those with families join because there is nothing else to to, they pay them to go around with ak47.
No industry left after the bombing, oilfields manned by big corporations with their own cheap labour.
Plus you have steady supply of leftover police/military force from destroyed country. They good with guns
and got nothing else to do.
And a steady supply of cash from conquered oil fields or saudi arabia (wahhabi Islam, most radicalized). Good friends of the west, they buy the most weapons.

 

[Barry White]

dont see the relevance in black lives count.
Police need to respond in the uk they dont just go get a gun its locked in the boot (usually and pemission is needed to retrieve it)
they will not run after shop lifters with guns or speeders etc.