SPDs do i need to fit them?

[Ian1972]

Hi, I'm installing a new circuit in domestic dwellings for various housing associations my question is do I need to fit an SPD or would it be the responsibility of the housing association, the circuit supplies equipment in the garden I'm running a 2.5 twin and earth through the house fed from a B16 MCB or RCBO depending on the fuse board it goes to an external rotary isolator, thanks in advance for your replys

 

[SparkyChick]

Personally, if I was just installing a new circuit, I wouldn't go to the extent of installing an SPD unless it was specifically requested.

That being said, it appears you are installing circuits specified by someone else... the designer... maybe bounce the question to them?

 

[telectrix]

Boing said Zebedee.

 

[littlespark]

Running a 16A radial to an external location…. To a rotary isolator?

What the heck for?

Run to an external socket maybe.

Are the housing associations providing hot tubs now?




Possibly Air Source Heat Pump now I think of it

 

[SparkyChick]

Possibly Air Source Heat Pump now I think of it

That was exactly my thoughts.

 

[Ian1972]

Running a 16A radial to an external location…. To a rotary isolator?

What the heck for?

Run to an external socket maybe.

Are the housing associations providing hot tubs now?




Possibly Air Source Heat Pump now I think of it

Hi yes ASHP

 

[Aaron b]

I've just been doing a SPD risk declaration and getting the customer to sign. I'm doing these for new circuits and alterations. It's only a couple of tick boxes no calculations. It also prompts thought about what type is required.

 

[loz2754]

TBH I'd be more concerned about the correct type (Type A) of upstream RCD being in place than I would about SPDs.
Especially if the ASHP uses an inverter drive.

 

[Aaron b]

I'm not giving an option with RCD type. If it's the wrong type I'm upgrading them. If it's an easy upgrade a SPD makes sense.

 

[swaRRR]

Why you using 2.5 with a 16a? Could use 1.5.

 

[SparkyChick]

Why you using 2.5 with a 16a? Could use 1.5.

2.5mm gives more flexibility with regards to cable routing and distance than 1.5mm due to it's reduced voltage drop (greater distance for a given design load) and overall larger current carrying capacity (2.5mm can carry the design load of 16A for all but one listed installation method).

Appendix 17 of the BBB also makes reduction of energy losses in the electrical installation a consideration for the design of installations. Given an ASHP is going to be running for a long time, the choice of 2.5mm will help reduce running costs by reducing losses in the cable. 1.5mm drops 29mV/m/A, 2.5mm drops just over half that at 18mV/m/A, so for a given cable length it will reduce needless loses by just under 40%. Over the life of the installation, that could add up.

 

[Dave OCD]

Yeah, but take into account cable length, insulation,volt drop etc and 1.5 would soon become a very poor choice.

 

[Dave OCD]

SC beat me to it, and with a much more comprehensive post too.

 

[davesparks]

Why you using 2.5 with a 16a? Could use 1.5.

Considering its a housing association job it has probably been specified by someone else and the OP is working to a spec. So if they were to use 1.5 instead of 2.5 they'd not get paid for failing to meet spec.

 

[Ian1972]

The housing association haven't specified any cable size, SPD or anything I'm just installing to the heat pump manufacturers requirements, regarding installing a SPD I'm not 100% sure if it's required or if even an risk assessment is required for a residential dwelling

 

[timhoward]

The housing association haven't specified any cable size, SPD or anything I'm just installing to the heat pump manufacturers requirements, regarding installing a SPD I'm not 100% sure if it's required or if even an risk assessment is required for a residential dwelling

If installed to amendment 2 then risk assessments for SPDs are no more.
The technical answer is they are to be installed where there is danger of serious injury or loss of human life, where failure of a safety service could occur, or there is risk of significant financial or data loss. In all other cases they should be provided unless the owner declares they don't want one.

How this relates to various jobs is something a lot of us are still figuring out. Obviously if it were a CU change you'd just do it.

You could cover yourself by asking "Do you want surge protection, as latest regs say you should have it?". If no, then add "Surge protection declined by owner" as a note on the certificate.
But if there was a spare way for a compatible 32A breaker, and room for a module, I'd just fit one.

 

[Markyd]

If you can get a waiver signed by the Housing Association then you wont need to fit one, from the 27th Sept they are mandatory on new installs unless you have the waiver from the owner...whether new install includes adding a circuit is still not clear, will get back to you on that

 

[Ian1972]

If installed to amendment 2 then risk assessments for SPDs are no more.
The technical answer is they are to be installed where there is danger of serious injury or loss of human life, where failure of a safety service could occur, or there is risk of significant financial or data loss. In all other cases they should be provided unless the owner declares they don't want one.

How this relates to various jobs is something a lot of us are still figuring out. Obviously if it were a CU change you'd just do it.

You could cover yourself by asking "Do you want surge protection, as latest regs say you should have it?". If no, then add "Surge protection declined by owner" as a note on the certificate.
But if there was a spare way for a compatible 32A breaker, and room for a module, I'd just fit one.

Thanks for the answer as i understand its not really required in a domestic property but, as the houses belong to housing associations its not really a question for the tenants so would it be the housing association responsible for making the decision to install them in there property's as part of there electrical checks and maintenance?

I just want to make sure I'm covering myself incase something comes back on me in the future

 

[Aaron b]

I think in the 17th it wasn't required in domestic but it is now.

If its rental I assume there's D1 fire systems so it should be there for them as a safety service.

A risk declaration gives the owner the reasons
for having them so they are making an informed decision and documents their selection. It's allowed because significant financial loss or data loss could be seen differently from an individuals perspective.

The risk assessment previously was the calculation that calculates the risk, not a normal risk assessment.