Discuss Why are RCDs so massively over-expensive? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Reaction score
5
Hi,
We are going into business making RCDs. We cannot undertsand why this massive gap in the market has been missed? All existing offtheshelf RCDs are >£30 and massively over-engineered!!!.

Our method is a simple version of a "Fluxgate current sensor".

That is, we use the fluxgate principle, but dont bother with the feedback, and dont bother using a "square law" core Torroid (we just use a standard , cheap as chips, AC CT torroid)

Its for 32Arms mains distribution boxes, that need an RCD.
They must detect >30mA of imbalance current (between line and neutral) , and 6mA or more of DC "leakage" current.

....seriously ....all you have to do is you get your mains line and neutral running through the torroid aperture.......then you simply shove a square wave voltage into the sense coil (the sense coil "secondary" that's wrapped round the torroid).......then the voltage that gets looked at, is simply the voltage across a low value resistor in series with the sense coil.....(its put in series with the coil "gnd" connection and ground)........and you then see either a symetrical waveform if no DC and no imbalance...or otherwise its non symetircal..........in fact, all you have to do is buffer it, filter it, add a small offset voltage so its positive all the time......then read it into an ADC....and its job done. Why is not everybody doing it like this?.....no feedback is needed.
No "square law" core is needed.

So why is nobody doing this?
Why is everyone paying >£30 for an offtheshelf RCD? (i am speaking about RCDs that dont contain the contactor, but just give the signal)

..the way described is inaccurate a bit, but you easily calibrate that out in production....just measure the coil core characteristics of the parts before building them up....

(this is for a sensor which will detect 30mA imbalance current in 32Arms wires...and also detect 6mA DC and more.)
 
Currently under £75 delivered. A drop in the ocean in the overall cost of bringing a product to market - especially if one wants to ensure that product has a market.

 
Currently under £75 delivered
Thanks, i have an article, available to all on the web, (from an international university) which shows an RCD signal circuit being done with <$5 of components (and that unnecessarily comprises feedback and a "square law" torroid core, so it would be even cheaper than that when the feedback is gotten rid of, and a non "square law" core is used).....the contactor would be additional to that, but as you can see, its well under £75.
 
Thanks, i have an article, available to all on the web, (from an international university) which shows an RCD signal circuit being done with <$5 of components (and that unnecessarily comprises feedback and a "square law" torroid core, so it would be even cheaper than that when the feedback is gotten rid of, and a non "square law" core is used).....the contactor would be additional to that, but as you can see, its well under £75.

£75 is how much a copy of BS7671:2018 costs.

How many RCDs do you expect to sell and what applications are you intending your products be used in?
 
It is true that detecting the imbalance is cheap and simple. Opening the circuit reliably under fault conditions is harder and more expensive, as it requires chunky metal contacts, complicated trip-free toggle mechanisms, arc chutes...

But maybe you don't have to actually open the circuit. Playing back a 5-second audio sample is cheap enough and if you use the speaker assembly from a mobile phone you can leverage mass production economy. So when you have a leakage, the RCD shouts out load and clear to come and turn the main switch off as there is a fault. Bonus is that it can remind you to press its test button on schedule (RTCs are cheap too).

I mean, if 'don't touch the busbars' is OK in an art gallery, surely a talking RCD is OK in a DB?
 
Thanks, but a type B RCD , that can detect 30mA imbalance, and >6mA DC, is way more than £30

 
Thanks, but the original post does say, admittedly at the bottom.....

(this is for a sensor which will detect 30mA imbalance current in 32Arms wires...and also detect 6mA DC and more.

...but yes, my apologies, as that bit should really have been at the top...i will edit the OP. Thankyou for spotting it....just tried to "EDIT" it, but it wont let me, too long after the event. Do apologise for that. That line should have really been at the top.

The OP does also say...
They must detect >30mA of imbalance current (between line and neutral) , and 6mA or more of DC "leakage" current.

...but yes, you are right, that bit of wording , that you kindly pointed out, was not intended
 
I mean, if 'don't touch the busbars' is OK in an art gallery, surely a talking RCD is OK in a DB?
The day a toilet started talking to me on a Virgin Pendolino train I think the rules got torn up, anything goes.
I quite like the idea of the consumer unit shouting “you idiot” or “buy a new cooker element”
 
Pages 7-9 of this are worth reading:
In particular the requirement from the EN 62423 standard for power-free tripping.

Another useful document (not specifically this thread) is this one:
Pages 25-27 have useful guidelines for leakage currents for many appliances if ever wondering "How many devices can I connect?"
 
Here's something to cheer everyone up.....

Electricians in and around London are taking £96 per hour at the moment...mostly installing EV points....


....listen to 23:41 onwards for the £96 per hour statement
 

Reply to Why are RCDs so massively over-expensive? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

Hi, We are designing and building cooking gas bottles with electronics controlled valves. These are for kids camping chalets. Its purely a...
Replies
1
Views
943
My view on life, in any field, is not to produce more but to consume less. Everybody told me this is a very eccentric weird mentality. Perhaps...
Replies
12
Views
2K
I am an old school Leccy having done 24 years in the Royal Navy as an electrical/electronic engineer (Control Electrical Mechanic) maintaining...
Replies
6
Views
1K
J
Hi Folks, Bit of an introduction thread - I'm a total newbie on this forum and looking for a bit of advice. Just moved in with my gf for the...
Replies
14
Views
7K
My brain is overheating trying to make sense of PV panel parameters and calculate the CSA of a DC feed cable to the inverter. For my 16 HL Solar...
Replies
29
Views
12K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock