Young mother electrocuted as she mopped up water from leaky boiler

[edrobbo8]

Very sad story, but what will happen to the company responsible?

Young mother electrocuted as she mopped up water from leaky boiler died after catalogue of workmen's errors | Mail Online

Also, they say:

'They found further fault in the fact there had been no drawings prepared of the site, so that workmen would know where electricity 'safe zones' were in the flat.'

Surely that is one of the elimentary bits of part p, a safe zone is the same whether there is a drawing there or not?!

They also say:

'Jurors ruled testing on the flat, was 'not carried out to a professional standard if at all'.'

Would it not cause an RCD to trip if a cable was that badly damaged by a screw?

Some fairly strange facts IMHO.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I wonder how many more deaths are needed for something to be done about the dire state of this industry & the continuous bodgings.

 

[telectrix]

never known a screw through a live cable to be picked up by an IR test unless there was low IR between the L and E or the L and N. the screw being live on it's own would not be picked up by testing. if the cable was installed in a prescribed zone, then the fault was not the spark's but whoever put the screw in. tragic anyway.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Didnt read report.

 

[Darkwood]

Cable safe zones are also part of the building reg's, it was a combined electrical/building firm from what i gather and a little bit of basic communication would have avoided this situe, from my experience all trades ive worked with tend to know wires may be run horizontal or vertical to power accessories usually through a past accidental drilled cable, just had a lass get a shock off a steamer (wall stripper) because a plumber drilled into the live only and only ecame evident and dangerous when plaster got damp, the IR test didnt see this before hand.
I believe where a danger such as drilling cables exists then any trade prone to doing this should be exercised and tested in cable zoning so as to avoid this happening again.
One can only assume their was a lack of 30mA rcd protection on this supply, again this would most likely have tripped before the accident or minimised the damage if she still received a shock, although a lack of info as to the circumstances means its hard to point the blame directly at anyone but thats the judge and jury's job.

 

[edrobbo8]

Very tragic indeed tel, but I don't understand some of the things they have quoted in the article. Why are they recommending things to NICEIC, surely it should be the ECA or any of the other bodies?

 

[telectrix]

all down to marketing. the niceic was the first and they make themselves known. the others don't bother so are not as well known. same with beer. john smiths smoothflow is 1 of the most godawful beers imaginable, but it's made popular by marketing strategy.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Very tragic indeed tel, but I don't understand some of the things they have quoted in the article. Why are they recommending things to NICEIC, surely it should be the ECA or any of the other bodies?

Agree. Sick of hearing all the others missed out like not even an after thought.

What a mess! One register, licence to work, not run for profit, by the trade itself. Not hard is it?

 

[mogga]

Had a lassie in a PFS getting shocks from the hot water ( YES THE WATER) tested rcd OK tested I.R. OK traced fault

Live had a screw put through it and earth at same bit Earth was "blown" clear fron incoming side Live was Blown clear below screw the EARTH was Live at the water heater hence the SHOCK from the water as the bonding of copper pipes was great Until the copper went through wall in PVC
It was one of those ones where a Photo and drawing told 10000 words The guy putting up mirroe with screw tripped RCD but as there wasnt a BANG he just reset it the staff were VERY VERY lucky Goes to prove my fav point that RCD/RCBOs are NOT the beall and end all of electrical safety

 

[Octopus]

Agree. Sick of hearing all the others missed out like not even an after thought.

What a mess! One register, licence to work, not run for profit, by the trade itself. Not hard is it?

Like the idea of one register, not for profit. Wonder how hard it would be and do Elecsa, Napit and NICEIC actually make money? If Stromer can do it for £250.00 it'll certainly attract a few members!

 

[trev]

Don't get me wrong here guys, this is a tragedy no matter how it's looked at but The Daily Mail is one of the most right wing hysterical rags in this country. I believe the saying "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story" could have been written just for their journalists and editor, and yes I do have a personal axe to grind with them.

 

[dingledong]

does the niceic make money ... of course it does it makes lots of money and wastes lots to

 

[cagedanimal2010]

RIP!! one asks how many more????

 

[Spudnik]

I had a very strange fault i went to look at last night.

N-E fault on a cooker circuit, however, it does not trip the rcd unless the cooker is being used.

In the corner of the kitchen, there were two pipes, both of which had continuity between them and N & E.

Gave up after an hour and said they were better off letting me install a new circuit.

Im thinking screw through a cable somewhere.

Strange though.

 

[High Tower]

If it's a pme then their will be continuity between pipes and N-E, or am
I missing sommet?

 

[Spudnik]

Not with them disconnected at the cu. :icon14:

However, its a TT.

 

[Darkwood]

I had a very strange fault i went to look at last night.

N-E fault on a cooker circuit, however, it does not trip the rcd unless the cooker is being used.

In the corner of the kitchen, there were two pipes, both of which had continuity between them and N & E.


Had this on a lighting circuit 2month ago, only tripped rcd when any circuit was loaded, it turned out to be squashed lighting mains which had N/E low insulation fault but didnt trip rcd unless you put load on any circuit running off that rcd unit, was a bugger to find at first.

 

[Darkwood]

Had a lassie in a PFS getting shocks from the hot water ( YES THE WATER) tested rcd OK tested I.R. OK traced fault

Live had a screw put through it and earth at same bit Earth was "blown" clear fron incoming side Live was Blown clear below screw the EARTH was Live at the water heater hence the SHOCK from the water as the bonding of copper pipes was great Until the copper went through wall in PVC
It was one of those ones where a Photo and drawing told 10000 words The guy putting up mirroe with screw tripped RCD but as there wasnt a BANG he just reset it the staff were VERY VERY lucky Goes to prove my fav point that RCD/RCBOs are NOT the beall and end all of electrical safety

I understand what your saying but an RCD is giving extra protection and if the lass who got the shock had enough current flow through her then the rcd if fully functional will have tripped saving her from a larger life threatening shock, i can only assume the conditions of the rcd were not met to warrent tripping so the shock the lass received didnt let enough current flow through her and was 'although startling' not a life threatening current flow. Anything over 50v ac can be felt as a big shock and will have any non-electrically minded person saying the've been electricuted (arms flapping and panicking) but in reality alot of shocks are just that; a shock to the system but are limited in current flow.

To say RCD / RCBO's aint all that is a bold statement from an electrician ( i assume) who should know how RCD's operate, under what conditions they operate and the potential risk of injury and death that they can significantly reduce. Im not claiming the're the 'Higgs Boson' (God Particle) of circuit protection but they provide a very real and significantly improved power safety trip in the circuit.They are there to reduce dangerous life threatening shocks of 30mA plus so wont always trip and prevent you getting a shock if this condition isnt met.
I trained and did my apprenticeship in the 80's when rcd protection was far and few between and the amount of stories of deaths in the home from electrical faults was so common they stopped making the news, we even had many examples in college of recent accident so as to learn from others mistakes and the obvious dangers electricity in the home brings.

Im slightly disturbed to see your favourite point is RCD /RCBO's are not the be-all and end all of electrical safety --- implemented and fitted as designed does give us a safety system that has made home electrical deaths a rare occurance nowadays, and usually where these deaths occured was due to cowboy antics or lack of rcd in an older install.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

First thing, thes flats were constructed in 2006.
At that time, the 16th edition was in force.
As such there RCD protection was not required for anything other than socket-outlets which may reasonably be used to supply portable equipment outdoors.
The article does not indicate which floor the flat is on, so it may be that it was deemed that no RCD protection at all was provided.
That aside, even with the current Regulations, RCD protection is not required for a boiler, even if it is supplied via a plug top.
Obviously there is now a requirement to provide RCD protection in some circumstances for cables concealled in walls.
Perhaps if the requirement for RCD protection had been in force at the time of design and construction this tradgedy would have been avoided.
The main problem however is not so much the lack of RCD protection, but in the manner in which the installation was inspected and tested.
The inspector was an unqualified Electrician's Mate, and whilst the Certification was checked by a supervisor, there were apparently (unspecified) errors in the paperwork.
Apparently the fault was a plasterboard screw had penetrated the cable hitting both the line and CPC. I am unaware of whether the CPC was intact or broken.
Testing should have shown whether the CPC was intact, and should have also shown that the insulation was compromised, if carried out correctly.
The Jury were not happy that drawings indicating safe zones were not provided, although there is no indication of who they believe should have provided these drawings.
They also blasted the fact that tradesmen were not made aware of the common hazard of traping cables?
To my knowledge, the practice of running cables in prescribed zones (I hate the term 'safe' zone) has been in practice since at least 1966, possibly since before, as has the practice of other trades, damaging cables.
Even when drawings are available, there is often no co-ordination between either structural elemnts or other services.