Am I being harsh?

[YoungBart]

Afternoon all, Just looking for opinions. Basically the other day I was sent to do a defects report on a building we designed the electrical installations for. So there was no testing as the contractor did this, I just had to make sure everything worked, Looked good etc.
It's the second time I've done one of these recently and on both occasions came up against the same two problems.
1) Labelling of FCU's etc, On both occasions circuit numbers and the use for the FCU had been labelled in marker pen, Not a proper label....I know there is nothing wrong with this, But it looks naff, Surely I aren't the only one who would pull this up?
2) Emergency test keyswitches, Again I was under the impression these needed to be engraved 'EM LT TEST' or something similar. But after seeing it on both sites I'm beginning to think I'm wrong?

Am I being harsh? Or have I just picked two bad examples in otherwise good work?

 

[Pete999]

Afternoon all, Just looking for opinions. Basically the other day I was sent to do a defects report on a building we designed the electrical installations for. So there was no testing as the contractor did this, I just had to make sure everything worked, Looked good etc.
It's the second time I've done one of these recently and on both occasions came up against the same two problems.
1) Labelling of FCU's etc, On both occasions circuit numbers and the use for the FCU had been labelled in marker pen, Not a proper label....I know there is nothing wrong with this, But it looks naff, Surely I aren't the only one who would pull this up?
2) Emergency test keyswitches, Again I was under the impression these needed to be engraved 'EM LT TEST' or something similar. But after seeing it on both sites I'm beginning to think I'm wrong?

Am I being harsh? Or have I just picked two bad examples in otherwise good work?

If the contractor has done a cowboy job, then pull him up about, your comment no testing worries me a bit though.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

No, I think you're bob on with that, as for em light test switches I think that as long as they're labelled up then ok but the engraved ones look far better imo.

 

[YoungBart]

If the contractor has done a cowboy job, then pull him up about, your comment no testing worries me a bit though.

Sorry for the Confusion Pete, I work for a design company now, So the contractor has done the testing (I've seen the certs) I just had to go and 'snag' really.

 

[Pete999]

Sorry for the Confusion Pete, I work for a design company now, So the contractor has done the testing (I've seen the certs) I just had to go and 'snag' really.

Right thanks for that

 

[Deleted member 9648]

If you are speccing the job make sure next time details like this are in the spec.

 

[davesparks]

What does it say in the design specification which you are using as your point of reference for this inspection?
If it specifies that labelling must be of a certain size, typeface and contain specific information then they are in the wrong, if it just says that accessories must be labelled then although rough you probably don't have much of a case.
The same with the test switches, what does the specification say?


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[YoungBart]

What does it say in the design specification which you are using as your point of reference for this inspection?
If it specifies that labelling must be of a certain size, typeface and contain specific information then they are in the wrong, if it just says that accessories must be labelled then although rough you probably don't have much of a case.
The same with the test switches, what does the specification say?

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Though I didn't actually spec the job I'm sure it says about labelling of emergency test switches, Though I don't think there is any specific indications as to what labels to use. I'm just thinking back to when I was on the tools, If id have labelled a spur or switch up with marker pen I'd have been labelled up myself, With offensive words!...

 

[davesparks]

Though I didn't actually spec the job I'm sure it says about labelling of emergency test switches, Though I don't think there is any specific indications as to what labels to use. I'm just thinking back to when I was on the tools, If id have labelled a spur or switch up with marker pen I'd have been labelled up myself, With offensive words!...

Do you not have copy of the spec to use when carrying out the inspection?

 

[YoungBart]

Do you not have copy of the spec to use when carrying out the inspection?

Yep, Unfortunately I Don't have access to it at the moment, As I'm not in the office, Hence the uncertainties.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Most people use Dymo labellers for this sort of thing.

 

[DPG]

Writing on an FCU with a marker pen is rough in my opinion. You can get a label printer for next to nothing. Even permanent marker will start to wear off after a few wipes with a damp cloth. Daz

 

[Jake1992]

I wouldn't say you are being harsh with the marker pens. As DPG said, after a few cleans, you wont be able to see it... and a label would make the job look more "professional" - like the contractors had some pride. & with the EM test switches, it makes it easier to locate and a much neater job

 

[Adam W]

I don't think there's anything "wrong" with either of the points you've mentioned, unless you had specified otherwise. From a regs point of view there's nothing to say you can't mark up a FCU with a marker pen instead of a printed label, or even marked up at all as long as it's clear what it does. I don't think you even need a keyswitch at all - you could test the emergency lights by turning off the breaker provided that will leave adequate light so as not to impede safety.
That said I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that - I like to take pride in my work. Were the contractors chosen because they offered to do the job the cheapest?

 

[Risteard]

I don't think you even need a keyswitch at all - you could test the emergency lights by turning off the breaker provided that will leave adequate light so as not to impede safety.

I don't agree.

8.3.3 Test facility
Each emergency lighting system should have suitable means for simulating failure of the normal supply for test purposes (i.e. without interruption of the normal supply).
NOTE An automatic test system for battery powered emergency lighting is specified in BS EN 62034.

(Source: BS 5266-1:2011 incorporating Corrigendum No. 1)

 

[Adam W]

I don't agree.

8.3.3 Test facility
Each emergency lighting system should have suitable means for simulating failure of the normal supply for test purposes (i.e. without interruption of the normal supply).
NOTE An automatic test system for battery powered emergency lighting is specified in BS EN 62034.

(Source: BS 5266-1:2011 incorporating Corrigendum No. 1)

Have you ever seen a system where switching the keyswitch cuts the supply so the lights go off and the emergency lights come on so you can see at a glance what's working and what's not? Depending on how the circuits are divided up the keyswitch has the same effect as turning the breaker off.
It's a perfect system for an office block where testing is done out of hours or when and where there is sufficient natural light not to cause a problem. Not suitable for internal corridors which would be plunged into darkness though.

 

[Risteard]

Have you ever seen a system where switching the keyswitch cuts the supply so the lights go off and the emergency lights come on so you can see at a glance what's working and what's not?

Of course, but such a setup is contrary to the requirements of BS 5266-1:2011 as I have demonstrated and therefore should not be installed that way.

 

[Adam W]

Of course, but such a setup is contrary to the requirements of BS 5266-1:2011 as I have demonstrated and therefore should not be installed that way.

That's the way you've interpreted it.
To me that regulation contradicts itself - how do you simulate failure of the normal supply without interrupting it?

 

[Risteard]

That's the way you've interpreted it.
To me that regulation contradicts itself - how do you simulate failure of the normal supply without interrupting it?

It's not contradictory. You are simulating failure of the normal supply to the emergency luminaires without interrupting the normal supply. This is achieved by interrupting the permanent line to the emergency luminaires.

I can safely state that it isn't just my interpretation - it is the intent of 8.3.3.

It is a common defect for key switches to be installed the way you have outlined - but it is a defect nonetheless.

 

[davesparks]

Having done the FIA / ICEL course on emergency lighting only the other week we were told that it is exactly as Risteard has said.
The test switch should only interrupt the supply to the emergency lights, not the whole circuit


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