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Like I said not me, but you're right it has been suggested and I agree, you can't stockpile medicine for some unknown virus.

But it's still taking away from the point re PPE and letting the government off the hook.
 
Like I said not me, but you're right it has been suggested and I agree, you can't stockpile medicine for some unknown virus.

But it's still taking away from the point re PPE and letting the government off the hook.

I know it wasn't you. Dave had replied to PMouth's post.
 
Signing up with the E.U for ventilators would have been pointless.
Guess who would have been at the end of the list for delivery and we'd probably have had to pay up front.

3 years ago or even 1 year ago no one would have known what the infection was going to be and what the appropriate PPE would be for it.

Same with the ventilators, we could have had 10000 in storage when what we actually needed was 10000 kidney dialasis machines.

There are no medicines associated with Covid 19 recovery to have been able to stockpile.

The statement today was that delivery of the following list of PPE has almost been completed to 58000 locations around the U.K including Care homes;

170 million masks, 42.8 million gloves, 13.7 million aprons, 182,000 gowns, almost 10 million items of cleaning equipment and 2.3 million pairs of eye protective equipment.

And presumably deliveries will continue, to top up what's used.
 
Like I said not me, but you're right it has been suggested and I agree, you can't stockpile medicine for some unknown virus.

But it's still taking away from the point re PPE and letting the government off the hook.

OK, so what PPE did they need to stockpile, for a virus they didn't know was coming or what type of infection it would cause?

A couple of months ago headlines about millions of pounds worth of medical face masks reaching the end of their use by date sitting in a warehouse gathering dust would have met with uproar.
How much would 10,000 ventilators in a warehouse having to be tested and maintained for years on end cost?

If the government just stockpiled every piece of lifesaving equipment that might be needed then how much money would it cost? How much would be left in the pot to pay everybody's 80% wages?

How much extra tax would you be happy to pay to fill warehouses with medical equipment that might, or might not, be needed?
 
You're right guys, you've got me there. There is no medicine certified for use against the coronavirus. I was thinking of medicines to treat secondary infections, but I don't really know enough about it to comment. Apologies, and above all else, you are correct.

My post did not say the government needed to stockpile every piece of equipment for every eventuality indefinitely. It said they could see what was coming from January, having watched it all unfold in China, and have had chance to act much sooner.

There is not enough PPE to go round. What is there has been diverted to the NHS, and care homes, nursing homes etc are missing out. Turn on BBC news 24 and sooner or later you will see this.

Also:
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OK, so what PPE did they need to stockpile, for a virus they didn't know was coming or what type of infection it would cause?

PPE! Gloves, masks, hand sanitiser! Generic medical stuff
 
Well, the PPE isn't there is it. Switch on the news, you'll soon see yet another healthcare professional testifying to that fact.

It's difficult for me to see the government's response to this in a positive light. We all watched the pandemic grow in China, and their people started dropping like flies, and it spread beyond Chinas borders to other nations where their people started dropping like flies, and then it arrived here, and it spread and we all know what is going to happen. It didn't happen overnight. Any simpleton could have predicted this.

Why did our leaders wait until the pandemic had already taken hold here before taking action? Why did they wait until just 2 weeks ago to request industry start thinking about building ventilators, knowing full well how unprepared the NHS is for this. Why have they ordered 10000 ventilators from a company that doesn't build ventilators, when there are companies that do, and are all ready to do so? Why did they miss the deadline for the EU procurement scheme, blaming it on a communications mix up? Why weren't they stockpiling medicine, PPE, and testing kits back in January?
Wow... you're a genius !! If only you were running the NHS we wouldn't have any problems at all...

You know far more than all the hundreds of experts that have been brought in over the years to reform an organisation that is so vast and so seeped in it's own culture that it's un-reformable. An organisation that has been put on a pedestal and worshipped by every single politician for the last 30 years... and that pedestal just gets higher and higher...
 
Wow... you're a genius !! If only you were running the NHS we wouldn't have any problems at all...

You know far more than all the hundreds of experts that have been brought in over the years to reform an organisation that is so vast and so seeped in it's own culture that it's un-reformable. An organisation that has been put on a pedestal and worshipped by every single politician for the last 30 years... and that pedestal just gets higher and higher...
Are you serious?
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Do you really think this governments response has been adequate?
 
My post did not say the government needed to stockpile every piece of equipment for every eventuality indefinitely. It said they could see what was coming from January, having watched it all unfold in China, and have had chance to act much sooner.

There is not enough PPE to go round. What is there has been diverted to the NHS, and care homes, nursing homes etc are missing out. Turn on BBC news 24 and sooner or later you will see this

PPE! Gloves, masks, hand sanitiser! Generic medical stuff

Indeed once they knew about the virus they would have started preparing for it, but there is only so much equipment they could source between January and now. Every country would have been doing the same and there will only have been a finite number of units available.

Add to this the fact that it probably all relies on some components which are made in China, which unfortunately was on lockdown.

Is it a lack of PPE or a lack of logistics?

It is impossible for us to know what is going on behind the scenes, but I think the government response so far has been pretty good.
They managed to stockpile enough money to keep the vast majority of the country going whilst a lot of people are not at work.
They had new, broad reaching and complex legislation before parliament so quickly that it must have been thought about and drafted/templated long before this virus was identified.
 
Wow... you're a genius !! If only you were running the NHS we wouldn't have any problems at all...

You know far more than all the hundreds of experts that have been brought in over the years to reform an organisation that is so vast and so seeped in it's own culture that it's un-reformable. An organisation that has been put on a pedestal and worshipped by every single politician for the last 30 years... and that pedestal just gets higher and higher...
This is rubbish and abusive.
All Pretty Mouth is doing is pointing out some obvious facts and asking reasonable questions. Just because it doesn't fit your blind narrative and you do not seem to be able to put together a coherent response, that others on here that I also disagree with can do, you post this garbage.
 
Are you serious?
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Do you really think this governments response has been adequate?

The response has been calm, collected, well organised, taken in to account the best scientific advice we have, not over the top.

No it hasn't been perfect, but it could have been a hell of a lot worse.
 
Here are some corona statistics that are worth looking at, 1st the UK, 2nd Germany. Have a close look at them, particularly the total corona cases graph, and the daily new death graph. One major difference between the two countries responses to the pandemic are that Germany is testing way more than we are here.


 
Are you serious?
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Do you really think this governments response has been adequate?
Managing a pandemic is a very very complex task... and goes way beyond ordering 20,000 ventilators. Personally... I wouldn't know where to start... I'd rather have a go at designing the next fighter jet !
 
If the govt had set these lockdown restrictions too early, ie when there was only a handful of cases in the U.K, people would have argued they were overreacting, and not done what was advised.... which is exactly what happened when the lighter restrictions came in.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
 
Here are some corona statistics that are worth looking at, 1st the UK, 2nd Germany. Have a close look at them, particularly the total corona cases graph, and the daily new death graph. One major difference between the two countries responses to the pandemic are that Germany is testing way more than we are here.


The number of 'cases' is an utterly irrelevant figure... it is estimated that in the UK there are several million that have either had it or still have it ! And likewise in Germany...
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If the govt had set these lockdown restrictions too early, ie when there was only a handful of cases in the U.K, people would have argued they were overreacting, and not done what was advised.... which is exactly what happened when the lighter restrictions came in.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
Agreed... I actually read two stories on the same news site this weekend... one article was banging on about how Boris & co. were getting tested above NHS frontline... and the other article was moaning about why they weren't tested sooner !!
 
Here are some corona statistics that are worth looking at, 1st the UK, 2nd Germany. Have a close look at them, particularly the total corona cases graph, and the daily new death graph. One major difference between the two countries responses to the pandemic are that Germany is testing way more than we are here.



Yes, those statistics are skewed by the fact Germany are obviously testing far more people than we are.
As far as I know we only test the cases which are hospitalised so our statistics will be lower total cases and a higher mortality rate.

My best guess would be that medical staff and laboratories time is better spent working on the serious cases than diagnosing those with mild cases.
 
The number of 'cases' is an utterly irrelevant figure... it is estimated that in the UK there are several million that have either had it or still have it ! And likewise in Germany...
I'm sure you're right. And what of the deaths? Do you think that by only testing people once they have been hospitalised, you are increasing their risk of dying?
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What do the WHO recommend?

 
I'm sure you're right. And what of the deaths? Do you think that by only testing people once they have been hospitalised, you are increasing their risk of dying?
The vast majority of people that have had the virus... have very mild symptoms or none at all. So are you suggesting that we should hospitalise everyone that has it ?

Testing is relevant now to find out who has had it (the antibody test) so that we can carry on without being locked down further.

A doctor was quoted the other day as saying that about ⅔ of all those that have died so far would have died anyway within the year... they were that unwell with other things wrong with them.
 
The vast majority of people that have had the virus... have very mild symptoms or none at all. So are you suggesting that we should hospitalise everyone that has it ?

Testing is relevant now to find out who has had it (the antibody test) so that we can carry on without being locked down further.

A doctor was quoted the other day as saying that about ⅔ of all those that have died so far would have died anyway within the year... they were that unwell with other things wrong with them.
Zerax. I have to ask you, are you being deliberately disingenuous?
 

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