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I do remember the 'Thatcher' governments, though seen by the eyes of a child growing through my teenage years. I fail to understand why any government would want ... 'everyone out of the coal mines/steel works ect and onto the sick....so they could massage the unemployment figures.' What 'benefit' is there in re-election terms of increasing unemployment?
I didn't really write that bit too well. In my opinion (and that of many scholars far more clever than me) Mrs Thatcher and her government ( That she ruled to the enth degree....not like todays leaders lol) had an ideology in that in their eyes it was time to take on and destroy the unions. That fact backed up with her and her parties policy of "Let the market dictate" directly led to an end to both the coal and steel industry.
What they seem to have overlooked was that the countries producing these goods cheaper were subsidised lol.Also it slipped their minds that unless they could replace the jobs that were lost due to these very policies then the governments of then and even now would have to pay for these people (whole communities in many cases) to live.
Now as for onto the sick - well that was the "trick" that the government of the day (and right through to today) used to make it look as though they had "solved" the problem of unions/uncompetitive industry and also have low unemployment.......No bugger believed it BTW she won her 2nd term on the back of a contrived "war" and her third term against a fairly incompetent Kinnock and the sun newspaper.
I know her supporters will say "same old" but I really believe that 50%+ of the problems people of the UK face today were seeded way back in 1980 > .
Funny thing was the thing that led to her downfall was 1. Not her idea 2. She was ideally against it in the form it was drafted in and 3. The poll tax was/is inherently more fair than what came before it....You pay the local tax per person - which relates to the fact that 10 people in number 30 use more council services than 1 person in number 31.....If only they had thought of implementing a mansion tax at the same time.....
 
Labour haven't a the slightest chance of being elected ,as their usual safe seats in scotland will be lost
after last years referendum "performance"
Though the thought of another 5 years of the current lot is pretty unpalatable too........
is Lord sutch still about?
id vote for him
 
I pointed to a house over the road and said how are you going to get the dopehead scroat off benefits and into work as he has an attitude that benefits are a way of life and not a helping hand to those in real need, noting as well it was under Labour that this systematic abuse of benefits was created.... she said she cannot comment on individual cases - i said OK any scum like him then in general ..... pause (No answer given)
I believe Labour prefer to call them "the poor".
Labour seem incapable of differentiating between those who work their backsides off on minimum wage, and 'dopehead scroats' who have no intention of working as long as they can get free handouts.
 
Labour haven't a the slightest chance of being elected ,as their usual safe seats in scotland will be lost
after last years referendum "performance"
Though the thought of another 5 years of the current lot is pretty unpalatable too........
is Lord sutch still about?
id vote for him
Indeed - I live in North Lanarkshire and the feeling round here is very anti labour....No matter the consequences. I can't really speak for other areas...But here they have fallen out of love with Labour big style.....Not helped one bit by the local labour mp who is getting a bad time on the streets due to his own failings.....it really is laughable. He was quoted as telling a class off secondary school kids "Tell your parents to vote NO otherwise I will be out of a job"....Now under some circumstances that would have been funny but given that there was an anti "Jobs for the boys" feeling against labour in general it was actually bloody stupid and ignorant.
 
My crystal ball sees a 2015 coelition between the Conservatives and the SNP..... then another election in October
 
I didn't really write that bit too well. In my opinion (and that of many scholars far more clever than me) Mrs Thatcher and her government ( That she ruled to the enth degree....not like todays leaders lol) had an ideology in that in their eyes it was time to take on and destroy the unions. That fact backed up with her and her parties policy of "Let the market dictate" directly led to an end to both the coal and steel industry.
What they seem to have overlooked was that the countries producing these goods cheaper were subsidised lol.Also it slipped their minds that unless they could replace the jobs that were lost due to these very policies then the governments of then and even now would have to pay for these people (whole communities in many cases) to live.
Now as for onto the sick - well that was the "trick" that the government of the day (and right through to today) used to make it look as though they had "solved" the problem of unions/uncompetitive industry and also have low unemployment.......No bugger believed it BTW she won her 2nd term on the back of a contrived "war" and her third term against a fairly incompetent Kinnock and the sun newspaper.
I know her supporters will say "same old" but I really believe that 50%+ of the problems people of the UK face today were seeded way back in 1980 > .
Funny thing was the thing that led to her downfall was 1. Not her idea 2. She was ideally against it in the form it was drafted in and 3. The poll tax was/is inherently more fair than what came before it....You pay the local tax per person - which relates to the fact that 10 people in number 30 use more council services than 1 person in number 31.....If only they had thought of implementing a mansion tax at the same time.....

Thank you for your redraft ... the other perspective is that it was the unions that made UK PLC uncompetitive ... but I have not researched the issue. I did watch an interesting film on YouTube the other day about Rolls Royce's preparations for building Merlin and later Griffon engines during WW II. It was refreshing to see the high level of cooperation between white and blue collar workers that delivered incredible productivity from initially 'un' or 'semi' skilled labour including a very significant intake of women. Highest quality training and cooperation appear to have been the hallmarks of success! Though I imagine the lack of a true market economy and all out blank check to achieve a high quality high performance product probably helped!

How was the Falklands conflict, war has to be declared and it was not, contrived? Governments preceding hers, and indeed her own, if I understand correctly had led the Argentines to believe, by their laissez faire approach to the Islands' sovereignty, that the UK was not interested. It suited Galtieri to unite Argentina around retaking islands that were then and still are a British protectorate. How would you respond if France invaded the Channel Islands?
 
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We should start a debate on the Labour successes from 1974 to 1979..........
No debate needed they and the unions buggered things up big style. There was a bit of a recession going on though. The whole of Europe was in trouble. The unions were running the country and THEY brought down the labour governments. It has/had a lot more to do with world economics rather than much that labour or conservative did in the 70's as a whole.
 
No debate needed they and the unions buggered things up big style. There was a bit of a recession going on though. The whole of Europe was in trouble. The unions were running the country and THEY brought down the labour governments. It has/had a lot more to do with world economics rather than much that labour or conservative did in the 70's as a whole.

So endless stikes in car factories in the UK, was a world economic factor?
So endless Civil Servants strikes, ditto above
So endless garbage collection stikes, ditto above?

I could go on....
 
Thank you for your redraft ... the other perspective is that it was the unions that made UK PLC uncompetitive ... but I have not researched the issue. I did watch an interesting film on YouTube the other day about Rolls Royce's preparations for building Merlin and later Griffon engines during WW II. It was refreshing to see the high level of cooperation between white and blue collar workers that delivered incredible productivity from initially 'un' or 'semi' skilled labour including a very significant intake of women. Highest quality training and cooperation appear to have been the hallmarks of success! Though I imagine the lack of a true market economy and all out blank check to achieve a high quality high performance product probably helped!

How was the Falklands conflict, war has to be declared and it was not, contrived? Governments preceding hers, and indeed her own, if I understand correctly had led the Argentines to believe, by their laissez faire approach to the Islands' sovereignty, that the UK was not interested. It suited Galtieri to unite Argentina around retaking islands that were then and still are a British protectorate. How would you respond if France invaded the Channel Islands?
See I may be biased....But I think the fact that she was warned many months before that we needed a navy presence down there...which she chose to ignore (Feeling that the navy chief was trying to curb proposed cuts to the navy around that time....). It was because of her ignoring this information that it ended up becoming an invasion....it is generally accepted that agrentina would have never tried anything is the uk navy had been down there.
When it happened she was miles behind in the poles. She and her advisers calculated that an "easy" win down there would be popular with the country....and they were right !!
 
So endless stikes in car factories in the UK, was a world economic factor?
So endless Civil Servants strikes, ditto above
So endless garbage collection stikes, ditto above?

I could go on....
I think I did say the unions were running things and did bugger things up. Nobody can really dispute that. BTW the Labour chancellor Denis Healy stated correctly that the UK needed to balance its books...he was booed off stage at the tuc...but he still went ahead and implemented fixed budgets for government departments...which was needed and is basically the model we use today.....the unions had got too powerful no doubt. They needed modernising and maybe a bit of regulating.....but imho we have went too far and most workers pay the price today for the destruction of the unions.
 
I am deeply embarrassed by the fact that I have only voted once in my life ... at the last election. To have voted at most other times it would have amounted to no more than a protest vote! Sadly the party for whom I voted, and helped to return their member for Parliament, in government made me redundant! How is that for irony!
 
So endless stikes in car factories in the UK, was a world economic factor?
So endless Civil Servants strikes, ditto above
So endless garbage collection stikes, ditto above?

I could go on....

There were no endless car factories strikes,
There were no endless Civil Servants strikes,
There were no endless garbage collection strikes,

Where are you getting your information from?


I think I did say the unions were running things and did bugger things up. Nobody can really dispute that. .

I'll dispute that.
Then as now it was the banks and the City running the country.
 
There were no endless car factories strikes,
There were no endless Civil Servants strikes,
There were no endless garbage collection strikes,

Where are you getting your information from?




I'll dispute that.
Then as now it was the banks and the City running the country.

i was was referring to the successes of Labour in the 1970's
 
Well if you want to borrow money to run your business / country, there is an inevitable consequence.... don't borrow and you can do what you want.... seams fair to me

That's a view, not mine though. But I was responding to Diddy's claim that the unions were running the country.

I wasn't referring specifically to borrowing, Healey found that out when he went to the IMF cap in hand.
The banks were the prime cause of the very high inflation in the early seventies due to the Heath goverments relaxing of the credit control rules.
 

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