Furious with NICEIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rockingit]

Before I start this rant, I do acknowledge that in a small part it is my fault, but........

I did a rewire quote for a customer a couple of weeks back, nothing out of the ordinary. When I left, I didn't have any cards on me so instead left one of my old advertising postcards littering the van with them instead. The clue is in the word 'old'.

Anyway, I get an email from the customer a couple of days later and to paraphrase a very long message she says 'like you, like the quote, would loved to have you do it but not going to as the logo's on your card aren't organisations that you're registered with'. Referring to NICEIC and trustmark (what a waste of money that one is!) logo's on the bottom of the old card. My NICEIC expired in Feb, and I've not renewed it up till now (and won't be - going with Stroma instead) as I've not been doing sufficient domestic work over the summer to warrant it. So, I send her an even longer email back explaining about part p, and the schemes, and LABC etc etc etc and also congratulating her for actually checking and send copies of past membership certs etc by way of proving that it really is just an old print run. I also pointed out to her that if she checked it she'd also find the logo still on a couple of my web pages, due solely to the fact that my web team are in the process of updating the site and haven't uploaded the new one yet. In other words, being 100% upfront and honest about what is, as far as I'm concerned, a marketing/paperwork mishap.

Hear nothing back from them, figure the job has gone away.

Today, I get THE most snotty email ever from the NICEIC claiming misuse of their logo, threatening this that and the other if I don't comply with various demands, and almost in complete denial that I ever actually WAS a member!! So here we are again - they have the gall to threaten legal action (which I'm not bothered about, it's all in hand anyway) over their logo in a matter of days, claiming to be protecting the 'standards' that they hold so high and 'protecting the public' whilst at the same time not giving a ---- about actual standards - and - get this - still sending me reminder invoices for THIS YEARS membership that I've cancelled!!!!!!

Where exactly do theses ----ers get off?

 

[Octopus]

So exactly how do the NICEIC expect you to get all your old business cards, estimates and back from your clients then, when you leave them for another scheme?

 

[1shortcircuit]

It would seem many people are not happy with the NICEIC. Just another thread reminding me why I never wanted to join them in the first place.

Sorry to hear this has spoiled your day but I'm sure you will be much happier knowing that you won't be giving them a single penny in the future:thumbsup

Head up

 

[Jay Sparks]

I feel for you mate. I am with Elecsa and so far have had no probs. There have been a few threads on here about people ( so called sparkys) going round with THAT logo on there van and there advertiseing but there not actually members of anyone. They seem to get away with it and then there people like yourself that genuinally was a member but have been delayed in removing THAT logo after seeing the light and choosing another cheme to register with and your getting threatening emails. And these people are supposed to be making the industry safer..........LOL

Jay

 

[alarm man]

to be fair rg,you have to see it from the customers side too.plenty threads about not using unregistered sparks and those who say they are and are not,customer has checked you out and finds your not still with nic,they presume your a chancer,we know your not but customer is just doing what everyone tells them to do.maybe you should have told them you were changing to another scheme

 

[Silly Sausage]

Now you know why NICEIC have to generate so much money, to pay their legal team.

R, easy with hindsight, you should have blanked the logo out with a big fat black marker pen.

 

[Des 56]

If the same customer had made complaint against an existing Niceic member for shoddy work, that organisation would be distant and evasive to that customer,the protection of the logo is their only concern

They are a discredited organisation who have lost the respect of a large proportion of electricians

They remain as the main player only because of the past almost monopolistic position they once held
If truth be told,as a scheme provider,if it wasn't for their past glories giving them work generation opportunities,then a large proportion of their members would jump ship

Give a link to the woman to look in on this forum, she may find very good reason why people like yourself look for alternatives to that sorry bunch

 

[Rockingit]

to be fair rg,you have to see it from the customers side too.plenty threads about not using unregistered sparks and those who say they are and are not,customer has checked you out and finds your not still with nic,they presume your a chancer,we know your not but customer is just doing what everyone tells them to do.maybe you should have told them you were changing to another scheme

This is the email I sent back........ (you might want a coffee, btw)

Dear [customer],

firstly, I applaud you on attention to detail and actually checking! The error is simply that the card I left with you is from a previous print-run, and you are quite right to question. You will also see that the error continues in our current website (which is about to be re-launched as a whole new site, hence not having made minor adjustments of changing the artwork recently). We are no longer affiliated to the NICEIC and our membership ceased on the 31st of January this year. Please find attached a copy of our previous certificate to verify this. The 'TrustMark' scheme is simply a badge that says a firm is registered with any one of the Part P bodies - see below!

There are many misunderstandings regarding what is commonly known as 'Part P' registration, and I shall try to explain how the system works:

Any person wishing to do certain types of electrical work on their DOMESTIC property is required to adhere to the Building Regulations - part 'p' (there are roughly 16 parts to the regulations and all have various letters by way of title). The method for this is that they are required to notify the Local Buildings Control Officer (BCO) at their local authority, complete various forms and pay an application fee of typically around £300 depending on the authority. On completion, the BCO will send an electrician (such as myself) to inspect, test and validate that the work has been correctly and safely done and will then issue a certificate of satisfaction. They often issue an extra bill for that final inspection as well.

Because the above is so obviously burdensome and costly to the home owner, at the same time that the Government introduced Part P they also introduced a scheme for electricians to be 'approved Part P installers' and validate their own work as satisfactory then inform the BCO via an online system, subject to an annual inspection and regular spot checks of actual work. There are something like eight separate national bodies (unlike for example the single GasSafe register for plumbers) that operate 'Part P schemes', the NICEIC is only one of which. Because of the very high fees involved in maintaining a registration with any of the bodies, in excess of £1000, it is only cost effective for any business to be signed to one if they need to be, and it is only applicable to certain parts of DOMESTIC work, not any other form of commercial or industrial electrics. Indeed, there are many extremely competent electrical contractors who do not possess Part P registration simply as they do not require it in their business.

Since December last year, [me] has been committed to a very small number of larger projects, none of which required work governed by Part P, and some of which were even commercial projects overseas. Because of this, the business simply didn't need to maintain a costly registration over that period. Now that we are returning to a more conventional pattern of work in the UK, and traditionally the winter months tend to be predominantly domestic, we are of course currently in the process of renewing our Part P affiliation, though not with the NICEIC but with another Construction body called Stroma. This is not an instant process as the business needs to be checked and verified commercially for things like insurance, health and safety etc, and I personally as the 'Qualified Supervisor' (responsible for the actual technical work of the company and all its' staff) am subject to a personal inspection, prove my own personal qualifications and required to submit examples of technical work to be picked over. Prior to being with the NICEIC we chose another body called Elecsa, and it is very much a competitive marketplace as to which scheme provider is offering the cheapest membership rates on any given month - rather like buying car insurance.

To add to the confusion, Part P certification is completely different to certification of work under BS7671:2008(2011) - 'the electrical regulations', and doesn't require membership of any organisation, simply the holding of an exam in the regulations (C&G 2382-10 or C&G 2382-20). I personally hold these qualifications and many others beside.

With regards to our proposal to you, either by the time the work is complete the renewal process for us will be finished, in which case all is as it should be, or if there is some hold-up (which would only be an administrative issue not a technical one) then we would discuss your rewire directly with the Buildings Control Officer for your area (Donna Tring on 01749 648999) and sort out the relevant paperwork directly with her, with any fees paid by us.

I will also gladly provide references for you from domestic customers we have serviced over the last few years should you wish.

I look forward to hearing from you, and will gladly discuss anything which you are still unsure of as I appreciate that it is both a technically and legally confusing situation. There is actually an on-line government petition created by one of the electrical organisations calling for the scrapping of the Part P system in its' entirety, simply as it's so confusing!

Kind Regards,

 

[alarm man]

its a bit of a rant rg,from a customers point of view..

 

[Rockingit]

It probably was, to be fair, but I'm really intrigued as to what BS they probably got told over the phone by the NICEIC.

 

[oldtimer]

the word applaud sounds like you are taking this pee plus as been spoken before NICEIC are happy to badge anything with a heartbeat and take the subs but will not expel a member for bad workmanship because thats a loss of subs yet they have a legal division who will sue anyone who uses their logo even if you have transferred over to someone else in the US they would call they would charge the Schemies with racketeering yep we think we are the mother of democracy but instead its Quangoes R US

 

[alarm man]

It probably was, to be fair, but I'm really intrigued as to what BS they probably got told over the phone by the NICEIC.

id imagine it was from any other quotes they got,the others might have told the customer to put the boot in and to make a complaint not knowing the full facts,id have just kept it simple and say your moving to another scheme,then again id probably have done just as you did with a few swear words,ending with shove ya work up ya arse..:icon10:

 

[oldtimer]

id imagine it was from any other quotes they got,the others might have told the customer to put the boot in and to make a complaint not knowing the full facts,id have just kept it simple and say your moving to another scheme,then again id probably have done just as you did with a few swear words,ending with shove ya work up ya arse..:icon10:

Should have said due to their poor standards and heavy sales culture you felt the customer would be better served if you moved to another providor

 

[Rockingit]

I'm not overly bothered about the job itself as it would have been a pain in the arse to do, margins tight, and they were the 'just a bit strange' kind of customer (though the 20 something daughter was top eye candy!) - I'm just annoyed about what seems like a complete over-reaction on the part of the NICEIC, a customer that's maybe been misled and then the complete injustice that yet again those of us who try to do the job properly, and honour the trade professionally are the ones left chasing our tails.

 

[HandySparks]

I'm not overly bothered about the job itself as it would have been a pain in the arse to do, margins tight, and they were the 'just a bit strange' kind of customer (though the 20 something daughter was top eye candy!)

That's where I've been going wrong with my estimating; "strange" customer: +10%, "top eye candy": -20%!

 

[imago]

It's of no help with your current situation I know, but for the next round of stationary it may be. I don't put a logo for the organisation I'm registered with on my cards or letter heads. I state that I'm registered, I name ELECSA in the job description along the lines of "all work is carried out in line with current regulations and certified where required through ELECSA." When talking to the potential customer I also point out that all the schemes merely administer the system on behalf of the LABC.

No matter what scheme I'm with my feeling is that if they want me to advertise on their behalf they can pay me to do so. It also means that if I feel the need to change I don't have to reprint a load of stationary. I have the stickers on my van, but as they're vinyl it's easy enough to get them off.

 

[sedgy34]

You will end up Rockingit on there wall of shame without you having a say (excuse the pun) lol

 

[applemac]

will this mean you will be in the nic hall of shame????

 

[Rockingit]

Well, the wall of shame is one of their threats, and I don't honestly think that will happen, but if they did then given the circumstances I'd have no hesitation whatsoever in spending the filing fee to the high court and suing them.

 

[imago]

You might end up with a forum ban too. Upsetting the electrical Mafia can have wide consequences.

 

[wade88]

Kidnap Tony Cable - its your only option mate.

 

[Rockingit]

Kidnap Tony Cable - its your only option mate.

If I did, then I'd have to make sure I'd used the right grade of cable ties, has the gaffa tape been IR'd........

 

[Rockingit]

Right, just got off the phone with the desk jockey that sent me the email. In short, I gave her what for and she apologised to ME for letting me down as a member and wanting to move on, not what they would wish etc etc. The file is on hold for a month to let my web team do their thing (which they were already anyway) and she'll check back before closing the case down and it get's forgotten. I sent her a copy email between me and my web designers from a few days earlier than their email and she seemed quite happy to take that as proof that I wasn't making it up.

I'm too polite on the phone to have really given both barrels to her, I'll save that for my reply in writing to follow!

 

[wade88]

Right, just got off the phone with the desk jockey that sent me the email. In short, I gave her what for and she apologised to ME for letting me down as a member and wanting to move on, not what they would wish etc etc. The file is on hold for a month to let my web team do their thing (which they were already anyway) and she'll check back before closing the case down and it get's forgotten. I sent her a copy email between me and my web designers from a few days earlier than their email and she seemed quite happy to take that as proof that I wasn't making it up.

I'm too polite on the phone to have really given both barrels to her, I'll save that for my reply in writing to follow!

It's not her that needs both barrels, like you said, she just answers the phones and reads off a prompt. Save the buck shot for the ones that count.

 

[Rockingit]

It's not her that needs both barrels, .

She did sound quite cute, though........ :gorgeous:

 

[wade88]

A frequent problem i encounter when attempting over the phone brutality. The bird always sounds like she might look like Angelina Jolie or something. Reality is, shes probably a total moose.

I ended up in a 30 minute conversation about the British country side and the difference between country pubs and inner city ones with a Canadian bird Jamie from my car insurance provider. Im almost positive she was ready to get a flight sorted

 

[Rockingit]

A frequent problem i encounter when attempting over the phone brutality. The bird always sounds like she might look like Angelina Jolie or something. Reality is, shes probably a total moose.

I ended up in a 30 minute conversation about the British country side and the difference between country pubs and inner city ones with a Canadian bird Jamie from my car insurance provider. Im almost positive she was ready to get a flight sorted

Mate, you and I SO need to go and drink copious quantities of beer together!!!!

 

[oldtimer]

No matter what scheme I'm with my feeling is that if they want me to advertise on their behalf they can pay me to do so. It also means that if I feel the need to change I don't have to reprint a load of stationary. I have the stickers on my van, but as they're vinyl it's easy enough to get them off.[/QUOTE]

Look at it this way if you were a heroin junky and you hate your dealer but he is the one supplying you your high.

Maybe one day you will wake up and find that you dont need an addiction

 

[Rockingit]

No addiction here, I can assure you! Just the unfortunate necessaries of being an English sparky.

 

[wade88]

Mate, you and I SO need to go and drink copious quantities of beer together!!!!

Haha, ready when you are mate.

Whoever fails to get the number of a call centre chick in two weeks buys the jars! GO!