horly rate

[Steve1412]

A very well known Global hydraulics company who I use occasionally charge for the lowly basic engineer of £70/hr upto £135/hr for the guy who knows a bit more.

 

[mazdaman]

i work in london and i know that a decorator charges £ 150 per day and the market rate for a plasterer is £ 250!

so.... for me anything less than double the price of a decorator is ridiculos! and it should definately be a lor more than a plasterer. So i charge £300 - 400. If those pipe monkeys can charge £ 60 p/h + then we should in theory be costing more but its whatever the market will pay and the value of your service

£15 p/h ??? a labourer costs £ 10 p/h

Yes truth I agree. It's what the market will pay and depends on geographic areas. In London you can charge more. I can charge more in different parts of Manchester to. I priced a shower install in Wigan and was told 'oh that's expensive' and I did not get the job. I priced a similar job in Bolton, exact same price, oh that's ok, when can you start'. But yes like I said in a previous post one can get more money for removing rubbish!! It's amazing. I'm trying to increase prices to what we are worth but there are to many out there under cutting each other and so many unregistered electricians doing cash jobs who are competing directly with legit companies that we are running down the industry prices and some sparks or should I say 'monkeys' are working for peanuts. What can we do?

 

[The Truth]

Yes truth I agree. It's what the market will pay and depends on geographic areas. In London you can charge more. I can charge more in different parts of Manchester to. I priced a shower install in Wigan and was told 'oh that's expensive' and I did not get the job. I priced a similar job in Bolton, exact same price, oh that's ok, when can you start'. But yes like I said in a previous post one can get more money for removing rubbish!! It's amazing. I'm trying to increase prices to what we are worth but there are to many out there under cutting each other and so many unregistered electricians doing cash jobs who are competing directly with legit companies that we are running down the industry prices and some sparks or should I say 'monkeys' are working for peanuts. What can we do?

i think the other thing with our line of work is that other than fixing power failures, our work is mostly 'cosmetic' or non essential work....and if something works...then its deemed to be safe which is often not the case. Where as plumbers / heating engineers work while often technical is always essential work such as loss of heating / hot water or leaks. and if a plumber says i need to do such and such....very few argue and just open there wallets. Where as we say you need a new consumer unit for reasons of safety...and they say...'well its been fine years so lets leave it for now' or ' thats expensive..is it really neccasary? ' but atleast we dont deal with human excrement on a daily basis

 

[sparks1234]

i think the other thing with our line of work is that other than fixing power failures, our work is mostly 'cosmetic' or non essential work....and if something works...then its deemed to be safe which is often not the case. Where as plumbers / heating engineers work while often technical is always essential work such as loss of heating / hot water or leaks. and if a plumber says i need to do such and such....very few argue and just open there wallets. Where as we say you need a new consumer unit for reasons of safety...and they say...'well its been fine years so lets leave it for now' or ' thats expensive..is it really neccasary? ' but atleast we dont deal with human excrement on a daily basis

No ****

NO SWEARING

Thats not swearing

**** **** ****, thats swearing

 

[claret73]

I'm employed as a Mate with a Domestic Installer (NIC). Into my 3rd year 2330 & he pays me £7 P/H...It was a starting point for me 9 months ago. Now I'm kinda hedging for an increase, not so much as having my L2 behind me but the fact I do contribute & benefit his business in reducing time spent on jobs, not just the chasing monkey...
Times are very tough with his biz at mo...

However, our install lecturer has run through past quotes he did as a contracts engineer for an ex Co. he was at, the majority of lads gave him heaps of Rogue Trader abuse! When he broke it all down to include staff wages, etc etc... he actually sounded fair on price.

In my notes it reads 'We have to be very clear that the reason we or our employers are in business is not to provide a social benefit, although they may do, but rather to make money. This is no bad thing, but a fact of life.'

Or, as our Lecturer stated 'we've all paid a lot of money in time & financial contribution to gaining these qualifications. We don't do jobs for cheap!'

 

[1shortcircuit]

but at least we don't deal with human excrement on a daily basis

I was working in a house that was being refurbed and the plumbers removed their waste pipe and left it in a pile in one room. Now I knew that this is where they thought it was going to stay so I contacted the chap who was paying me at the time and politely informed him that there was no way on this planet that I was going to touch it.

Sure enough, the plumbers said that their quote had not included to remove any rubbish from the premises. However, they felt it necessary to remove any copper and put that in the back of their van


As some of you may be aware, I am not an Electrician. I start my course in January.

I currently work in construction as a slinger/signaller for Tower cranes (Pays around £12.50 p/h at the moment) and a Telescopic Forklift operator (Currently earning £9 per hour)

I actually turned down a long run of work a little while down because the Agency were paying £8 odd per hour I told them in no uncertain terms that they were having a laugh and said goodbye

I believe it's very important to realise what you are worth and if it turns out that people do not want to pay that then they look elsewhere and possibly get a shoddy job done

Now I have a long road ahead of me and there's no guarantee that I will ever become an Electrician but I guarantee if I make it then I will be in business to make money and never out to undercut everyone so that I get the work. It should be about "Quality" not "Quantity"

Cheap quotes in my opinion will reflect the quality of work.

I will not be studying my nuts off to eventually earn just a few quid more than I could sat in a forklift truck or running around chasing a crane. Hell No, I will be quoting to make enough money to provide for my family AND progress my business.

My goal is to one day have people working for my business so that I can just deal with the quoting and running of the business. It would be even better if I ever make it to the stage where I can just sit back and over see the running of MY Successful business

This is years away but IF I make it then this will be my Plan of Attack

 

[DLMahon]

£15 an hour, you may as well work for someone else and save yourself the hassle of all the other work you need to do to run a business. If you work for yourself you need to factor in that you do not get paid, as you would if you worked for someone else, for bank holidays, 8 of approx, annual leave, plus the other time you need to put in such as your free quotes, visits to accountant, time when being audited for Part P, HMRC audits, van servicing, repairs etc on top of all the other overheads that have been mentioned, insurance, advertising cost software licences, etc. I charge £35-£40 per hour for domestic, £45-£50 for commercial and from £60 upwards for industrial, max so far I have charged is £120 per hour working in dusty environment at heights. If I can give you some sound advice that is if you are self employed you are a Business man first, electrician second!! If you are a brilliant sparky but a crap businessman your business will fail! Do you sums for a full 12 months and allow for the jobs you don't get paid for or someone going bankrupt as has happened to me.

As a rule of thumb to get your cost right, if you quote and you get every job you quote on, your to cheap!!
Look at getting approx 60% of the jobs you quote on. If you are still getting 85% upwards, put your cost up.

Its better to do less work for more money. If I charged 50% more than a competitor but only get 50% of the work I quote on for similar work, we both end up with same pay but my competitor has to do twice as much work, including paper work, running around to suppliers etc for the same amount of pay and I can have more time off. Some think it's a competition if they 'win' the job but it's all about getting more pay for the work that you do, do!

Charge what you think you are worth but many electricians do not charge enough because we are fighting with each other for business and with those doing jobs on the side. We should charge like solicitors, they will not drop the price but they also know there competitors will not drop either. They work together and have a pricing policy. I am an Electrical Engineer and worked for the electricity board and have managed many high cost projects. I now have my own electrical contracting business. All sparks should put there cost up. Do you know you can get paid more for removing rubbish!! I mean that, these online sites for work people will pay £400 to have rubbish removed from there garden and it takes about 2-3 hours for £400!! Employ a couple of numpties so you don't get your hands dirty. I sometime wonder if its worth being a spark at all but certainly not for £15/h!! No disrespect but its business novices like yourself who are driving prices down.

I'm an electronics engineer (M.Eng) who is looking at going self-employed as a domestic electrical installer, so it's good to see another man has done this. I also want to say, I couldn't agree more. Work together for the benefit of all!

 

[sparky paul]

I only wish i had some of mazdamans advice when i started out on my own 3 years ago

I had to learn the hard way,when i first started i used to win 90% of the jobs i quoted for and yes it looked good as the money rolled in,then the bills started landing on my mat

I had to wise up sharp,

Someone said to me once ,if your doing a job ask yourself how much money you are making out of it,if the answer is nothing then ask yourself why you are doing it

Sometimes it is hard to walk away from work even more so with the work situation we all face daily,but i would rather lose a job than do it for nowt.sparkies are there own worst enemy ,selling themselves short instead of commanding the respect they deserve and pay to match.

 

[roukel01]

I live in a small Town not far from York. There must be at least 15 - 20 self employed electricians in the area, most of which charge between £20 - £25 per hour. If you charge any more, you simply don't get the work, because there are plenty of sparks out there quite happy to be paid this amount.
I'm not just talking domestic stuff here either, thats industrial, commercial, the lot.

Its the same with PAT testing, we used to do quite alot of PAT testing for our regular customers, but then flyers started coming through the post advertising PAT tests as little as 90p per test, it goes without saying, I no longer do their PAT testing!

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I have just started and I have based my prices on £25 per hour for public, £20 trade. I have picked up a lot of trade work to be fair. but I will have to watch my profitability, as although I have billed £5k this month, I am yet to cover my start up costs. I took 9K out of the bank to do this and have yet to put it back.

I think that £35 is a real rate that should be charged in order to have a sustainable business. That is if a job is too big , you would have enough to hire another to help. Lower rates than this are really just buying work. I need to buy work at the moment, but I think I should not do this as time goes on.

It is not so bad having a low trade rate. as you are having all of the finding work and customer facing stuff done for you and you are getting a stream of work. Also the person giving that work needs a mark up to cover their advertising and general business risks.

I find this a compelling subject and wish there were more contributors, as the broader the picture the better. I will stop talking hourly rates to the public and start using a job card based on £30 p/h in the new year.

Martin

 

[Amp David]

I'm working as a service engineer for a print engineering company. They charge to a non contract customer 155 quid per hour with a 90 quid call out. Thing is, nearly every company that knows the equipment charge roughly the same.

With the electrical trade, everyone else is trying to undercut the next man on their hourly rate, thus creating the competition, that sooner or later will drive the rates down even more.

 

[jimmyjazz]

Martin, not surprised your getting the work for your area that's half price!!

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Hi

i don't want to be half price - are you sure?

I have seen posts saying it was about average

If it is half price then I shall change it pronto.

I will never pay off my tool bill, tax bill and fuel bill if i keep going as I am.

But i would rather be busy than not so i have to have a strategy forward.

Trouble is I have mostly worked in industrial and at distance from home town, so I don't know many local sparks to get guidance from on pricing etc.

Does everyone agree that it is half price?

Martin

 

[jimmyjazz]

Posts are from all over & prices vary greatly. I live just outside Pompey & charge £50 ph domestic. Whilst I know others on or about this rate, its not just about price its also about selling your services. As stated in earlier posts you got to make sure all of your overheads are covered. At my rate I'm busy, but I can'y afford a Porche, I cover my commitments. It's also harder to raise your prices with your customer.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Thanks for that and I really like the Strummersque name , if aint your day it aint your day.

So do you announce you rate to you customer straight up?

They say they want a new CU and you say ooo that'll be £600 please. Is this far off.

3 bed house rewire empty inc parts £1800 , is this too low?

Martin

 

[pennywise]

Too low I would say but I'm in the southwest of london you would be taking £3-4k, Just went to kensington yesterday Client showed me a price she had received for replacing her CU and upgrading the Bonding £900. then again may be all RCBOs etc plus parking and inconvenience for working in london. Everywhere and every job are always different.

 

[coggy]

I say £30.00 per hour for home counties but for £60.00 count me in !!!!!!!!!

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Hi

I am being brave and putting up my prices, though not to the builders yet, but where I price a job I will go in line with some of the pollster here. I realise I am not making a profit at the moment and I should not just price to work all week on that basis. Otherwise i am just spoiling the market for me and others. I will not rip anyone off but I have taken on board the fact i need to cover overhead too.


I have done the last 2 jobs at a lot more than I usually charge and one of the jobs was for a landlord that owns 6 houses, he said he checked my price, as he did not know me and was told it was ok. So there you have it. Good old jimmyjazz is on the money with this one.

Martin

 

[jedisparks]

Interesting thread.

Stumbled on this as i was searching for info on hourly rates. Dont usual have a problem with it. But went to look at a job today, potentially a big job over the next 2 or 3 years on and off, so am quite interested in it.

Anyway went and had a chat with the client today and told him my usual hourly rate of 25 per hour (north essex area) (I stay quite busy with this rate). he coughed and spluttered! i asked him how much his previous sparks were charging him, he said £18.50 per hour. while i was there had a quick look at some of their work and it was to a good standard.

Other thing is i usually work within 15mins or so of my front door. this job is 40 mins away. I said i would see if i could bring my rate down abit for him. but now im thinking **** it! i would be mad to.

I rekon either his other spark is absolutely desperate for work or he is trying it on to see how low ill go. what do you folks rekon?

thanks for reading

 

[acat]

Stick to the rate you charge if you give in on this one you will give in on the next one and before you know you will be paying the client to do the work.


Chris

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Hi

I really sympathise with your position, but the other pollsters are correct.
If you let a dutch auction take place where the guy can get five sparks in and get the price down to basically a PAYE rate but with you picking up the overheads then it is to the detriment of us all.

Try and neg, tell him £23.50 is you bottom rate if he can make a commitment to use you for at least x hours, you decide what x is. But don't give anything for nothing else he will think you a walk over.

If these 18.50 guys are so good, where are they, prob too busy for him ie unreliable, not real co, some thing wrong there. Ask him who they are. What have you to lose. Bet he won't tell you cause he is having you on. Anyhow we have to live and we won't do on that money.

I am learning that the rate should be min £37.50 and that anything I do for below this should be a loss leader. That is it should serve a purpose. Such as I have a builder who I do work for. When he is doing a new loft I work for him at our agreed rate, but he gets lots of enquiries for electricians and refers them to me, or me to them and I charge them my new rate. So the arrangement serves a purpose. It is a frm of advertising/ marketing of my services.

This is being learnt day by day, I a still prob doing it all wrong. But that is what the forum is for to swap ideas

Good luck

Martin

 

[Steve_P]

I've finally got round to reading some stuff here. Will hopefully post some stuff soon too but here goes.

There are some spot on answers regarding rates. As yet, I'm not an electrician, start my course very soon though. For quite some years I worked for myself in the IT industry. the so called 2k bug was ammusing but then the rates started to drop. From about 35/40ph on rollouts down to about 25 in 2001, then Marconi layed off a load of IT staff followed by HP and Compaq merging. The rates dropped to less than a khazi cleaner in London. I bided some time in a permie job then got out of the industry all together and took on a shop. Now I'm getting back into something I can actually use my brain for but I am not planning on selling myself short (taking I can get through all the exams and the likes). The average round here is about £25/30ph, new to the trade or not, so long as I know that I'm capable of doing the job, I'll charge that or more.

A lot of it is about confidence. If you go to look at a job and start talking so much per hour, the customer straight away knows that you're trying to work out how long it'll take and how much slack you're working into the job. If you get there and say the job will cost £600 and you know it'll probably only take a day and a half but you tell them 3 days and there'll be a few extras thrown in, they're probably going to be more than happy. When all's said and done, most of them only want to know how much they will want to hand over once you're done anyway.

Working for yourself gives you the freedom to make money, that's why we do it. When I was in IT, I would phone other people in the area to see what they charge. I'd then take the average and add a few quid.

I noticed a couple of mentions about plumbers. I know a few from the Legion and local pubs, they may take the preverbial but they do need their work signed off and quite often will not wire in the boilers they're installing. If you've been messed about by one, remember the name, they may call you in one day . . . . . . . . . . .

Hope this rambling helps somehow,

Steve P.

 

[drywax]

One thing I've learnt over the last 2 yrs working with the public is they watch these money saving programs and will naturally try and bring the price down your job is to stay put with the price. We have a ruling at our place even sometimes I think the price is too high but " it is what it is, if they don't like it then tough ****, you don't go into business to do favours " particually electrical when you have a whole lot of liability on your shoulders.

I've also noticed that the most wealthiest of clients are the worst they are megger tight you don't get there type of money by spending it and alot of them will take that attitude to the grave.

I sell kitchens by the way and we deal with 10,s of thousands of pounds but we know we offer a high end product without the ridiculous price discounts for a good fair price and it is what it is.

we quoted a customer £8K for a kitchen he had a second quote for exactly the same kitchen at £14k but it had 50% discount and believe you me, we did the maths right there for him £9.3K he still went for the 50% off because he was getting discount effing crazy or what.

the moral being stick to guns fools are born every minute don't become one.

I'm currently in transition and going down the self employed route as a spark by the time I become registered etc. in late spring I will have spent ~£3-4K and I not even got my 1st job I'll be damned if some ponce is going to get me out of bed for less than £25 per hour after the intial time and money investment not to mention the ongoing costs related to this line of work.

perhaps that might seem a little arrogant or am I standing up for the everyday spark who are continuly being under priced by rogues or customers who expect the moon on a stick

 

[cornburn]

7 pages of very encouraging reading here, and a lot of good advice for new start ups. As so many have said, to make a go of it you need to be a businessman first and an electrician second. Things I've learned in the past 3 years:

Saving money is as good as making money, and sometimes a lot easier.
Knock your suppliers down and always have a backup locally.
Stock up on things when they're cheap or there are silly offers.
Budget wisely as there will be times when nothing's coming in ( I just had a 3 week holiday with no income and have 3 weeks training over the next month, allow for this in your hourly rate)

My rate works out between £25 and £75 / hour depending on what work we're doing (not all electrical). You can't really compare one job to another if the customer's different - some have higher or lower expectations or different priorities and at the end of the day you have to work out how to get the most out of them while still leaving them happy with the job and wanting to call you back next time. That's where the skill is, the actual work you're doing doesn't really come into it - it's the customer service.

It's nice to see people encouraging others to charge a decent rate as some of the figures knocking about are ridiculous. Out of an average working week of 60 hours (sometimes including weekends) I'll get paid for 30 hours of it with all the other crap I have to do to keep the business running. Take off training, tools, van, diesel, servicing, van insurance, tax, public liability insurance, membership to various ******** organisations, clothing, advertising, phone bill, bank charges ....................... and you'd be lucky to break even with some of the figures being mentioned on this forum.

Enough of a ramble anyway, one final point I want to make to anyone who hasn't looked into it is the VAT flat rate scheme. If most of your customers are VAT registered then you could be making another 7.5% each year for the hassle of filling in a very simple form every 3 months. Wish I'd done it sooner. For those doing public stuff it wouldn't be worth it as they couldn't claim it back but for everyone else it might as well be in our pockets!

 

[Steve_P]

Don't you have to be VAT registered for a couple of years so that an average can be taken or do they just assume that out of your turnover you'll be spending a certain figure on stuff you offset against your final VAT bill? It is dead easy though, you take £xxxxx and give the VAT man a set %age.

 

[cornburn]

No, I went straight on flat rate from the beginning (they even give a 1% discount on what you have to pay them for the first year). As long as you spend more than 10% of your turnover on materials then you get the good rate of 8.5% (or 7.5% for the first year). No need to offset anything, you just pay them 7.5% of your total turnover (including VAT) each quarter, leaving you with an extra 7.5% (roughly) in your pocket at the same time.

You can still get the VAT back on capital goods too (anything over £1k) so a flash new PC or van can go VAT free

HM Revenue & Customs: Flat Rate Scheme for VAT

 

[Janner Sparks]

Things are a bit different down here in the South West. I'm in Plymouth and charging £11/hr or £70/day, no mark up on materials, full PIR from £30, LABC notification £3, new CCU from £150. And I'm still being undercut !

 

[bugsy]

You should be charging £25 / £30 per hour , ( don't forget the van still needs taxing and insurance you still pay p/l even when your not working.)
It's a case of suuply and demand and at the moment there's not much demand.
If you go in too cheap all will be well for a couple of months until reality kicks in, there are a lot of contractor's going bust because there buying work - don't be one them.

 

[mars6394]

would love £60 an hour get me that job,i live in Manchester and people are moaning about £10 an hour complete p**s take but with work so rubbish at the mo ill rather take the work thn do nothing

 

[andyb]

No, I went straight on flat rate from the beginning (they even give a 1% discount on what you have to pay them for the first year). As long as you spend more than 10% of your turnover on materials then you get the good rate of 8.5% (or 7.5% for the first year). No need to offset anything, you just pay them 7.5% of your total turnover (including VAT) each quarter, leaving you with an extra 7.5% (roughly) in your pocket at the same time.

You can still get the VAT back on capital goods too (anything over £1k) so a flash new PC or van can go VAT free

HM Revenue & Customs: Flat Rate Scheme for VAT

Cornburn, this sounds interesting. Do you mind saying what you turnover & what you save.
Cheers.

 

[ezzzekiel]

When i started out i charged a million pound an hour, i only ever got one job but hey now im retired

 

[cornburn]

Cornburn, this sounds interesting. Do you mind saying what you turnover & what you save.
Cheers.

My turnover isn't very relevant (or accurate), as last year I also resold quite a lot of expensive goods which I would have done better on being fully VAT registered. You can easily work it out though on any figures.

In a year you take 40k, and you've spent £5k on bits.

That leaves you pre-tax of 35k profit as non VAT company

On standard VAT if you invoiced 40k+VAT, your bits cost you £5k-VAT = £4255

That leaves you pre-tax of £35745 profit ( so not worth the hassle of the paperwork for £700, especially if some of your customers can't reclaim the VAT)

On flat rate VAT if you invoiced £40k+VAT, your bits cost you £5k (can't reclaim VAT on them)

40k+VAT=£47000
-7.5% to VAT man = £43475
-bits of £5k = £38475

So if all your customers are VATed and aren't bothered about you charging it then you're £3,485 up at the end of year 1 for the sake of filling in 4 returns (5 minutes each), and you can also get the VAT back on any capital goods over £1k. Everyone's different so you'll have to do the sums to see how much you spend on parts and how much is on labour, that's the key. Hope this helps

 

[andyb]

Looks good, I need to work it out with materials being a bigger part of my turnover, it' s more than 12.5% as your example.

 

[cornburn]

Yes each year might also be different from the next but you'll get the general idea what's likely to be best for you. Also take into account that the quarterly flat rate return form only has 2 numbers on it - that quarters turnover and the percentage of that you're paying them, that's it. Going fully VAT registered means totalling up all your receipts for the quarter and calculating the VAT so will suck more of your time (unless you're into book keeping)

 

[R.J.C.]

Very true. Where I live undercutting from the "cash jobs on the side using company materials pilfered from the company van" sort of fellow never seem to go away. I recently quoted £150 for a good 4-5 hours work and was swiftly undercut by a young lad fitting the above description for 50 quid on his day off. The client has since spread the word that my rates are extortionate.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I would ask the guy for his number. Just say you are always looking for help in this busy time.

Call him book him, film him and shop him.

We can't compete against thieves and rogue traders.

So get the evidence, find a job that is like his day job. i.e if he might have some armour cable, see if you can get him to supply that.

I met a bloke like this, pleasant enough fellow. He drove a very nice company car and told me his firm would allow people to keep the "left-overs" from jobs and that he had a garage full of 2.5 and other cables. He gave me a price for rewires that meant that I would be better off just getting him and his lads to do my rewires and make a decent profit without even getting out of bed, BUT I would need to sign them off. I was not interested in joining the black economy.

All of the laws seem to target the people doing things in a legal way and never seem to deal with the stench of criminals that run rings round everyone else.

We all need to take responsibility to report catch and rid the system of this,
[h=3]All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing[/h]
Martin

 

[dingledong]

like fire men for example aleady getting a wage and can undercut every one on there long days of

 

[Sparkytlec]

Try working out what yo want to earn a year £25K for example then add your years van insurance £600 Then Liabilaty Insurance £800 then add your part P Regestration £450 Then a years fule for the van £2500 (if your lucky) Road tax £150 the cost of your 2nd hand van over 5 years so £1,000 per year and so on and so on but lets say there are another 2k of costs and i'm sure thats low witch adds up to £32,500. now work out how many days a year there are. 365 days then take off weakends 104. that leaves 261 now take off your holladays so lets say 4 weaks. thats 20 days leaving 241 days. Thats 8 days less than someone on the books but hey were sellf employed! Now if you work 8 hours a day for those 241 days thats 40 hours per weak! you can charge £16.86 per hour. But that means you dont have time to go to the bank, go to collect materials, quoting, site visits, take the van for MOT or any other thing you need to do. Allso there would be no spare cash to buy a new drill or van tyre.

you would actualy be working for less than £13 per hour with all that hassle. you could be working for someone else for that with out the stress!

Is it worth it?

A reasonable rate would be at least £30 per hour

 

[Dale200bhp]

I charge £30 per hour for a spark or £37.50 for spark and apprentice. Its been this way since 2007 and I have not put it up.
End of the day we are in business to make money, you might as well work for somebody if you work for less.

 

[Snapester]

Hi guys, really interesting stuff i charge £250 on my own p/day or £330 for me and mate! Now im really thinking im to cheap what do you think? When i say £250 a day people turn there heads but after reading this i feel confused by it all.
Im in Birmingham so would be interesting to know what you think?
Thanks