* How many points? *

[Adam W]

Following on from a discussion/argument/brouhaha at work today:
Would you describe a CCU (Cooker Control Unit) which incorporates a socket as 2 points since it does 2 different things, or 1 point since it's 1 accessory and 1 set of terminals?

Also would you count a cooker flex outlet as a point since it contains a set of terminals, or not since it's essentially a JB and not doing anything the terminals in the cooker don't do?

 

[Leesparkykent]

I would count the 45A switch as 1 point regardless of it having a socket or not.

 

[MFS Electrical]

Each item that has a set of terminals is a point so CCU with socket would be 1 and the pigs a*s would be another. You wouldn’t count a double socket as two points same sort of theory

 

[Risteard]

I wouldn't count the switch - only the cooker connection outlet. If the cooker switch has an integral socket outlet then I would call it a point additionally. As a point is defined as being for the connection of current-using equipment I would not count switches/isolators.

 

[Ian1981]

If a cooker control unit incorporates a socket outlet I call it 2 points ( the cooker point with socket and outlet below)
2 points of utilisation for current using equipment.

 

[123]

Is a double socket 2 points?
Is a light switch and Pendant 2 points?
I 2 way lighting and 1 Pendant 1,2 or 3 Points?

Whether for pricing or for test cert, there is some amount of different opinion on it.

 

[Rpa07]

Well done @Adam W - you've brought the ‘brouhaha’ to the forum!
I’m for CCU as a single point, even if it has a socket but I get @Ian1981s comment and thought - mmmmh I may be on the change!

 

[Ian1981]

Similar can be said of a double socket but although it incorporates 2 points of utilisation it’s still only ‘one point’ as in one double socket so I’d count a double socket as one.
If you had one cooker control switch but 2 outlets for say an oven and hob I count that as 2 , same reasoning as a control unit incorporating a socket outlet.
It’s trivial stuff really however you want to view it, this is just my opinion.

 

[Octopus]

Any one offer any guidance on what BS 7671 actually says?

 

[Adam W]

There are some good points (if you'll pardon the pun) being raised here. In the end my colleague wasn't having any of what I (and later on the boss when he popped in) were saying and called the NICEIC helpline...

 

[Ian1981]

There are some good points (if you'll pardon the pun) being raised here. In the end my colleague wasn't having any of what I (and later on the boss when he popped in) were saying and called the NICEIC helpline...

Outcome from the helpline?
Can’t believe it got to that point tho!
No pun intended either

 

[Adam W]

Any one offer any guidance on what BS 7671 actually says?

Point (in wiring). A termination of the fixed wiring intended for the connection of current-using equipment.

Clear as mud.

 

[MFS Electrical]

I wouldn't count the switch - only the cooker connection outlet. If the cooker switch has an integral socket outlet then I would call it a point additionally. As a point is defined as being for the connection of current-using equipment I would not count switches/isolators.

Although an isolator could be the point for connection of current using equipment ie 20amp DP switch feeding an immersion heater or a shower connected to shower isolator . Just out of interest would you count switches on a lighting circuit as points or just the pendants?


And if you wanted to be a complete A**E you could say that because the neon in the switch is connected and it is an item of current using equipment that anything with a neon is a point!!

 

[Octopus]

Point (in wiring). A termination of the fixed wiring intended for the connection of current-using equipment.

Clear as mud.

Are you referring to BS 7671 in general?

 

[Adam W]

Outcome from the helpline?
Can’t believe it got to that point tho!
No pun intended either

After he got into a bit of a discussion with them it seemed they agreed with me.

 

[MFS Electrical]

Outcome from the helpline?
Can’t believe it got to that point tho!
No pun intended either

They didn’t know either

 

[Adam W]

Are you referring to BS 7671 in general?

That could well be used as a general description of BS7671.

 

[Octopus]

Just out of interest would you count switches on a lighting circuit as points or just the pendants?

I count and record on the EIC the number of light fittings ...........

But I suppose I should count the lights and switches

 

[MFS Electrical]

I count and record on the EIC the number of light fittings ...........

But I suppose I should count the lights and switches

I use the IET model forms so I don’t concern myself with the number of points purely because it is so subjective

 

[telectrix]

personally, i think it's pointless discussing the subject. where's my beer?