Landlord and rental accommodation

[John tomo 1972]

can anyone correct me if I’m wrong. If it’s a rented accommodation do the smoke detectors/monoxide need to be hard wired in relation to EICRs as I’ve just had a lanlawd tell me to stop talking sh@t

 

[suffolkspark]

Lanlawd.... Failed English in school did we?

 

[John tomo 1972]

Ha ha. Yip

 

[snowhead]

From Here;
Smoke Alarm Legislation for Landlords explained - https://www.fireandsafetycentre.co.uk/advice-centre/smoke-alarm-legislation-for-landlords/

Although the regulations don’t specify what type of alarm should be fitted, it’s suggested that the best option would be for a hard-wired type so that the batteries can’t be removed rendering the alarms useless. Stand-alone types are acceptable, but it’s recommended that models with a 10-year battery life should be chosen.

 

[John tomo 1972]

Thanks

 

[westward10]

The method of connection is not a stipulation under BS7671 so why are you including it on an EICR.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

Lawd only Nose

 

[Octopus]

No. Smoke alarms are not included in EICR's

But - if they are 230v units the circuit should be tested.

 

[westward10]

Yes of course but BS7671 does not stipulate wiring methods for BS5839:6 systems.

 

[Pete999]

Lanlawd.... Failed English in school did we?

OH Lawd very droll

 

[littlespark]

AFAIK, the regulations for fire detection in rented accommodation can be either 230v or 10 year lithium battery powered ( battery cannot be removed)
The only stipulation is that they are interlinked. Hard wired or via radio link.

Best place to ask would be a local letting agency.

 

[123]

AFAIK, the regulations for fire detection in rented accommodation can be either 230v or 10 year lithium battery powered ( battery cannot be removed)
The only stipulation is that they are interlinked. Hard wired or via radio link.

Best place to ask would be a local letting agency.

I do a lot of work for a local letting agency, frankly it's the last place I'd ask. I'd be surprised if any of them have any sort of an idea about what should be installed and what products are available.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Rental properties in Scotland require mains-operated, interlinked smoke and heat alarms. The alarms must have a battery back-up. It doesn't matter whether the battery is a built-in lithium or a removable 9V. CO detectors are also required for rooms containing a gas appliance or flue, but need not be mains-operated or interlinked.

With regards to EICRs, if battery/230 volt smoke alarms are present, I'll do a push test to see if they function. If not, I'll give the homeowner a heads-up. If the alarms are mains-operated, I always test the circuit and record the test results on the report.

 

[littlespark]

Rental properties in Scotland require mains-operated, interlinked smoke and heat alarms.

Are you sure, JK? I thought, as long as they were interlinked, it could be mains or lithium battery?

 

[JK-Electrical]

Are you sure, JK? I thought, as long as they were interlinked, it could be mains or lithium battery?

Below is section 8 of the Scottish Government's Fire detection in private rented properties: guidance .....

When the Repairing Standard was introduced (3 September 2007) the building standards regulations required that there should be one or more than one functioning smoke alarm installed in the house, the number and position of alarms to be determined by the size and layout of the house. There was normally to be at least one smoke alarm on each floor. If there were multiple alarms, they should be interlinked. A smoke alarm installed from 3 September 2007 onwards had to be mains powered with a standby power supply. Note that the manufacturer’s recommended life span of a fire alarm is usually 5-10 years and all battery-powered fire alarms in private rented houses should hardwired when they are replaced.

 

[littlespark]

Has there not been an update to that publication since 2007?

 

[JK-Electrical]

Has there not been an update to that publication since 2007?

The guidance that I quoted from in my previous post was published in December 2016. However, the law was changed in April 2018 and all homes in Scotland are now legally required to have smoke, heat alarms installed, not just new builds and rental properties. Homeowners have until 2020 to comply.

I see nothing that would indicate the requirement for mains-operated alarms in rental properties has been removed. Indeed, if anything the indication is that status quo remains:

The proposed standards are an extension to the existing standards for privately rented properties, so a private landlord should already be complying.

According to the Scottish Government, "the cost for an average two bedroom, two storey house could be between £160 and £280. A one bedroom flat should cost between £120 and £200."

Aye right. If you say so. I certainly won't be installing any mains-operated alarms at those prices, that's for sure.

 

[pirate]

Just my tuppence worth, but as I have said before, the Scottish government recently had an open discussion document and have accepted that hard-wiring is no longer necessary, as advances in technology have shown that Li-ion 10 year battery units., with radio modules will be fine. This is good news because the lack of disruption to decoration will be minimised, so the labour will be too, so the final cost will be lower, so more landlords will be prepared to do the work, so tenants will be safer. I have installed to these parameters for a couple of years, but...it is NOT law yet, still has to be ratified, but it will be...some LAs accept it as being part D, some however do not yet. Having read the report, yes you will be falling foul of the current legislation if you instal wireless modules on 10 year Li-ion, but by the end of 2018 I expect this will be the new standard. I may be out of date as I have not checked this today.
Frankly, the sound produced by, for example, Aico alarms, would wake the dead in Carlisle from anywhere in Scotland, and as most rented properties require an alarm in the hall, living room and kitchen, you are never more than 20 feet away from one, and as any one of them will set off the others, you would have to be dead not to hear one...
I know...laws are one thing, practicalities another, but installing to the new standards will be easier all round...and preclude the extra sticker on the CU that says "DO NOT MEGGER"...

 

[JK-Electrical]

Just my tuppence worth, but as I have said before, the Scottish government recently had an open discussion document and have accepted that hard-wiring is no longer necessary, as advances in technology have shown that Li-ion 10 year battery units., with radio modules will be fine. This is good news because the lack of disruption to decoration will be minimised, so the labour will be too, so the final cost will be lower, so more landlords will be prepared to do the work, so tenants will be safer. I have installed to these parameters for a couple of years, but...it is NOT law yet, still has to be ratified, but it will be...some LAs accept it as being part D, some however do not yet. Having read the report, yes you will be falling foul of the current legislation if you instal wireless modules on 10 year Li-ion, but by the end of 2018 I expect this will be the new standard. I may be out of date as I have not checked this today.
Frankly, the sound produced by, for example, Aico alarms, would wake the dead in Carlisle from anywhere in Scotland, and as most rented properties require an alarm in the hall, living room and kitchen, you are never more than 20 feet away from one, and as any one of them will set off the others, you would have to be dead not to hear one...
I know...laws are one thing, practicalities another, but installing to the new standards will be easier all round...and preclude the extra sticker on the CU that says "DO NOT MEGGER"...

I will continue to install mains-operated smoke and heat alarms in rented properties until such times that the Scottish Government confirm that mains-operated smoke and heat alarms are no longer required in rented properties. To the best of my knowledge, they have not yet done so.

I'll be most surprised indeed if this requirement is removed as this would mean that the level of protection would be dropped from grade D to grade F. I really don't see this happening.

 

[littlespark]

How many landlawds have replaced their main powered ones after 10 year lifespan? The dates are printed on them, and it just a case of changing the head for Aico products.... but with the 10 year lithium battery ones, the low battery warning beep will tell you it’s time to change.

I agree that mains powered is the preferred choice, but for upheaval on a property new to the rental market, battery is a good choice.