Plant Pot Brigade!

[andrew692003]

Does anyone want to join?

As I've stated before I have never used these between floors or in any new builds so don't get out the sniper rifles straight away!

The only time I have used clay pots has been in lofts where access isn't a problem and usually in older dwelling houses. Now, the last time I did this was a good couple of years ago not that that matters as I can't see a problem with it.

When fitting the pots I always make sure that the insulation is clear of the hole and all dust etc has been cleaned away then I fit the pot with the transformer outside lying on top of the insulation. I always push the insulation up against the pot which makes it very steady.

At the end of the day all you are trying to achieve is to stop debris falling on the lamp and letting the heat dissipitate to possibly stop causing fire so, does it matter whether you use a firehood, plasterboard box or a bloody clay plant pot?

Firehoods can be expensive and a PIA to fit, Plasterboard boxes take time to build and even the cheapest Firerated fittings can still up the cost considerabaly.

Cheers

 

[pennywise]

Nice

 

[andrew692003]

Hey, not at all. good points.

My points not aimed directly at you or anyone really.

just my thoughts.

Entertaining and interesting really



What debris are you classifying to be reasonably expected? What if lets say a cot or a bike or a old TV falls on the clay pot.....Hmmm....It smashes... maybe...probably...
Are these thing reasonably expected to be stored in a loft or will you tell the home owner, your customer, different.

At least the metal or plasterboard ones will flatten to a point and still stay in tact to a degree too and still provide protection a clay pot on the other hand will shatter in to bits.

When the customer rings you up and said your work has broken because something fell on it, what are you going to say...well you chose to have downlighters not me...he/she replies... you installed them and the silly pots...Didn't you think of that...itn't electrical work regulated...well those clay pot are not electrical...well your an electrician and you put them there....blah...blahhh.blahhhhh!!! ya..my...and the ...leg off...

What if they don't even notice the pot is in bits under or masked by the insulation. what if the pot damages the cable when broken.. then you would have caused the fire because you put them there...

Whoops, smash, burn away. Safety is no Accident!

Its not about saving the loft its about saving lives

I.e. escape time...................

Do all your clay pots ring? You know like the antique guys do the ring test...
God knows how many times I've bought clay pots for the garden and they have broke just from picking them up or filling them.

HAHA! You do have a point but the handle is in't turning....yet!

I think if something in the loft fell hitting the Clay pot or that metal hood the customer may be more worried with the bike handle portruding through the sealing!

Tell you what Marty, go to your local garden merchant buy a pot and start jumping on it! See how long it takes to break!

Cheers

Haha! I've just read pages 3 to 4 as I had no time last night, I've actually been **** myself laughing! A lot of good pots sorry, points raised. As far as I'm concerned this is all light hearted fun and yes it probably has run its course and I'll carry on using clay pots!

ps someone mentioned pots between floor joists, I don't think this is a good idea and hence a firerated downlighter would be used.

Cheers

 

[martysparky]

HAHA! You do have a point but the handle is in't turning....yet!

I think if something in the loft fell hitting the Clay pot or that metal hood the customer may be more worried with the bike handle portruding through the sealing!

Tell you what Marty, go to your local garden merchant buy a pot and start jumping on it! See how long it takes to break!

Cheers

Haha! I've just read pages 3 to 4 as I had no time last night, I've actually been **** myself laughing! A lot of good pots sorry, points raised. As far as I'm concerned this is all light hearted fun and yes it probably has run its course and I'll carry on using clay pots!

ps someone mentioned pots between floor joists, I don't think this is a good idea and hence a firerated downlighter would be used.

Cheers

Yes indeed hilarious, entertaining and interesting too.

Why don't they install the spare TV in the ceiling to watch TV lying in bed?
There would be a good chance it ends up that way anyway. lol

oh, if the bike handle came through the ceiling at least my installation would still be in tact. lol

Great fun!

 

[rocker]

I have actually seen a full size snooker table in an attic. Christ knows how they got it up there, but once they did it sort of got 'jammed' in an immovable position at a jaunty angle. I told him he would have to get it moved or have surface mounted mini trunking. Saw a van with tzorztczki or something written on it outside his gaff later on, wonder if our not-too-distant cousins managed to traverse the billiard ledge.......

 

[bluesparky]

It is a load of bull about these down lighters being enclosed,if you enclose them ie in a can type down lighter all you are doing is trapping the heat in and thus you have created a minature oven where the heat cant escape thus makeing it more dangerous as if they were left uncovered and heat allowed to disperse.

 

[Notsosmart]

I propose that within the loft space in conjunction with a fire hood, we also box in, put a flower pot on top with a fan assisted vent tube out through the roof.

For the safety of the snooker playing trick cyclist; who's balancing the tv in one hand & reading his stack of ---- in the other, we should also mark out a suitable route through his downlighters. Maybe channel 4 could televise this as a celebrity challenge; something like 'My roof's on fire, but I'm OK because I have smoke hoods' (Just a working title at the moment)

 

[rocker]

Can't stop laughing at that title.

 

[bugsy]

Yea I know Rocker , and I wish I had'nt instigated it

 

[martysparky]

OMG 'My roof's on fire' Dam and blast I didn't get a fire rated loft hatch....

Bloodhound Gang - The Roof Is On Fire Lyrics

 

[andrew692003]

OMG 'My roof's on fire' Dam and blast I didn't get a fire rated loft hatch....

Bloodhound Gang - The Roof Is On Fire Lyrics

Thats a good point too! You would need one **** clay pot for that bad boy!

Cheers

ps I see this thread is starting to lose interest, It's been fun and en-lightning at the same time.

Cheers

 

[martysparky]

Just for clarity

The Electrical Safety Councils stance is as follows:

1. Clay pot as Fire hoods:


We have published a best practice guide (No. 5 Electrical installations and their impact on the fire performance of buildings: Part 1 ) that, in part, deals with the requirements for downlighters and fire hoods. The guide can be viewed at: http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG5_08.pdf

In the guide, we recommend that downlighters have integral fire protection. or are provided with some other ‘suitable’ form of fire protection. A suitable form of fire protection would be a purpose-made fire hood that has been designed for this use and that meets the fire performance requirements of BS 746: Part 21: 1987 and the construction/stability requirements given in Annex E of the guide.

A product (such as a clay flower pot) not designed for use as fire protection would not be recommended unless it can be ascertained that it could meet all the performance requirements mentioned above, which is very unlikely.

We hope you find this response useful.

Regards


2. Insulation separation with clay pots.



It may be, but unlikely in every case. Factors that would need to be considered include – adequate ventilation for the luminaire, thermal performance requirements specified by the manufacturer, weight on the ceiling, stability, etc.

Building regulations do not prohibit the leaving of a small area around downlighters free from thermal insulation where it is necessary to permit the dissipation of heat they generate.

Hope this helps

 

[bugsy]

Say's it all

 

[roukel01]

Least they say I 'should' be ok to use 'em to keep the insulation back, which is all I'd ever use them for anyway!

 

[Notsosmart]

Did you actually approach the ESC with an enquiry about the use of flower-pots?
I didn't think anyone took the thread seriously
I wonder what the bods at the ESC think of this forum now?

 

[martysparky]

Clarity is always good.

for whoever might be reading

but it still unclear:

ESC said 'Maybe Ok to use pot but unlikely'.

No hard straight answer, it seems, because it has not been tested.

 

[GT1]

Difficult to argue against fire rated downlighters.! Although cost is ALWAYS an issue. Especialy when client sources their own fittings.
Safer = better, but comes at a price.
But there is still the issue of dealing with the heat coming off the lights. Even with fire rated items, if they are covered over with 18inches of insulation, they are going to get mighty hot. Bulb failure and overheating problems are still going to occur.

I quite like the look of these support boxes Click GB440 Insulation Support Boxes 400mm [GB440] - £5.66 and about to order some for a job. Apparantly once installed they can be covered over with insulation. Anyone used them..?

 

[Des 56]

Courtesy of the link to the Iet
However, in situations where downlighters are installed in ceilings under roof spaces, where debris or thermal insulation may accumulate on top of the luminaire, a case could be made for building a plasterboard or metal box around the luminaire or installing a fire hood.

Leave Bill and Bens flower pots alone
Pinch the builders plasterboard instead,its cheap, effective, and if he is a half decent builder he will make them for you

 

[martysparky]

Click GB440 Insulation Support Boxes 400mm [GB440] - £5.66

Haven't used them but look fine to me.

 

[andrew692003]

Least they say I 'should' be ok to use 'em to keep the insulation back, which is all I'd ever use them for anyway!

Nothing wrong with that at all. They are there for keeping insulation off the fitting and to stop any debris falling on the lamp!

Cheers

 

[roukel01]

100th post.... yipeee

 

[martysparky]

101 potty postamations

and a silly amount of plant posts in the attic to trip over.
Grab ya old bike / TV / snooker table / BS7671 etc - fly up th loft for a part-y-P trip on a plant pot and put your leg through the ceiling and say I've been down the morgue like Vivian off the Young Ones if you can remember it look at chapter 12.



Maybe it was a good idea to put them there, but in all cases its most likely not.....

in accordance to P91

 

[Spudnik]

Well done chaps you made it to 100 pots of potless drivel!

Brownie pots all round.