Recessed Patio Lights

[Bellendian]

Hi, got a job coming up that will involve installing recessed lights into the patio. I'm trying to figure out the neatest and also compliant way of wiring these up.
Generally I wouldn't bury any cable other than SWA, but I can't imagine these walk over lights are going to have provision for glanding off 2 swa cables.
Have seen these at local shop and installers have put a wiska box on building wall inline with light, run swa loop through this and then what looks like a hituf link direct to light fitting.
Unfortunately in this case I won't have a wall to mount anything onto...
Was considering using a resin y joint buried adjacent to fittings and then running hituf or rubber flex out of the y ready to connect into each light, but seems expensive!
Thanks for any ideas

 

[Octopus]

Talk the client out of having them ..................... too many issues, when the go wrong (which they will) IMHO

 

[westward10]

Not along the Gatwick flight path is it

 

[Octopus]

Not along the Gatwick flight path is it

The OP is from Gatwick

 

[Bellendian]

Ha! Have worked under flight before, but not this job!
I know what you mean about talking them out of it, but the trouble is theyve got mates who have got them, so theyll just say 'well the jones have them, so I want the same but better. They dont have any problems'....and then assume im an incompetant because i tried to talk them out of it!

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

If installing them make sure you get ones where you can either remove and replace the actual fitting without taking up the patio or can remove the weather sealed lens to access the lamp inside. seen far too many of these fail. i tend to talk the customers out of having them in the patio, if they insist and its very short cable lengths then I will run hituf in flexible pvc conduit under the patio amongst the sand, it means its easier to pull through new cables in event of damage later on.

 

[cliffed]

I’ve got the same problem,client supplying the lights,ain’t got a clue what they’re gonna be like,advised him on certain aspects,but don’t think he listened.
Can’t wait

 

[1Justin]

When you begin burying joints in walls, however you do it, you are setting yourself up for problems with outdoors wiring. I checked out a 2 year old new-build not so long ago. The contractor had buried all the joints and drivers to a load of Collingwood wall lights somewhere inside/behind a soil backfilled retaining wall along a driveway. Numerous failures, and no access to the SWA terminations short of major rebuild, a rewire, or digger to remove bank behind.
Needless to say the owner was taking the original contractor to court, and quite honestly I have sympathy.

 

[pirate]

New-builds.........AARRRGGGHHHHHH!

If there isn't a wall to mount a JB on OP, maybe use a steel rod/bit of angle iron driven into the ground and mount it on that, at a low level. Take the feed in there, and back out in flex conduit to the lights? Maybe that would allow a proper termination of the feed.

 

[Squid]

Not along the Gatwick flight path is it

 

[Octopus]

I’ve got the same problem,client supplying the lights,ain’t got a clue what they’re gonna be like,advised him on certain aspects,but don’t think he listened.
Can’t wait

I would make 100% sure that they realise that any problems with failures will be at THEIR cost

 

[Spoon]

I would make 100% sure that they realise that any problems with failures will be at THEIR cost

Especially as the customer is supplying the lights....

 

[cliffed]

I thankswould make 100% sure that they realise that any problems with failures will be at THEIR cost[/QUOT

Thanks,there’s a lot of rubbish out there right now,looking nice & pretty but no consideration on how we connect to them,1.5mm onto 0.50mm flex,how nice.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The way I do it .....wouldn't consider doing it any other way.
A plastic 100mm+ soil pipe is sunk into the ground on the line of the lights with a built in slight fall for drainage. A hole is drilled into the top of the pipe to exactly fit the sleeve of the ground lights. Wiring is run through the pipe and the patio is built over the pipe with the sleeves in place in the soil pipe. Waterproof connectors can simply drop through the sleeve and lay in the pipe. The end of the pipe is left accessible under a manhole or some other means so that wiring can be accessed in the future, with provision for drainage, the higher end is closed with a blank end. I've done several high end properties in this way and never had any come back. Costly and a faff, you need a sympathetic/decent patio layer, but I guarantee a system that will be trouble free for many years,and faulty lights are easily replaced by pulling them out of the sleeve along with the waterproof connector.

 

[cliffed]

Sounds good idea,will certainly have a go at that,all down to the grounds workers,but yea top notch.

 

[1Justin]

@wirepuller. Nice idea. - It relies on sleeves being pretty long doesn't it, especially if a longish run and aiming to get some fall on the 100mm. And also a sleeves a close close fit to the pipe hole. - Checking sleeves just now, I noticed some from "Enlite" which are deeply ribbed, which would give soil, worms and creepies etc all a very easy entry.
I'll look seriously at the idea though if I get asked to do one. Ta.

 

[Bellendian]

Hi, thanks for the replies, looks like I'm not alone here with this conundrum...

Wirepuller - I like the sound of your plan, I have the luxury of supervising the groundworks on this job so I can get things done how I need them. Do you have any particular brand of fittings that you recommend for this? I have plenty of 100mm twinwall ducting left over from another job, and reckon this may make a good substitute for the soil pipe.

My biggest concern is this: I wouldn't normally bury any cable other than SWA. Are we saying that if the cables are laid in ducting, and protected by the paving, that this rule can be relaxed somewhat, and the use of a suitable (Ho7?) type flex would be deemed acceptable?
The use of flex greatly reduces the potential problems with terminating the cables into the fittings.

There is a nearby garage, into which the ducting could be routed, and all the flexes marshalled in and terminated.

If there is a consensus that it's ok to run flex in ducting to these things then I'd be pretty happy with this as a solution!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The last one I did all the lights were connected to drivers in a WP box above ground level so all the below ground wiring was in flex and extra low voltage. I have also done mains fittings using TRS flex, RCD protected. No issues with that at all in such a large duct, under a patio where disturbance is not going to be a concern. Joints using pond type plug/socket connectors.
The main area to take care is sufficient fall for drainage, and you should take precautions to prevent rodent ingress to the duct.