Sprinklers and isolation of supply?

[Rockingit]

I've trawled the regs already...... (but happy to have someone point out something I've missed!)

It's a domestic, new-build, timber frame house but designed on a commercial model as everything is fed via sub-mains from a plant room on-site.

Conditions of planning imposed by the fire officer is that there is a sprinkler system throughout as it's too far out to get a fire engine to.

I knew nothing of this until the firm arrived on site this morning to start installing it (of course...).

Question: Do I need to install a way of automatically disconnecting the main supply (leaving the emergency systems in place) in the event of activation or not? There are wall lights everywhere, floor sockets....no way that things will stay dry. Obviously it's an RCD protected install as it's being done to 17.1, but that alone may not disconnect. I've just been on the phone to my NICEIC inspector and he couldn't give me an answer either.

 

[alarm man]

I've trawled the regs already...... (but happy to have someone point out something I've missed!)

It's a domestic, new-build, timber frame house but designed on a commercial model as everything is fed via sub-mains from a plant room on-site.

Conditions of planning imposed by the fire officer is that there is a sprinkler system throughout as it's too far out to get a fire engine to.

I knew nothing of this until the firm arrived on site this morning to start installing it (of course...).

Question: Do I need to install a way of automatically disconnecting the main supply (leaving the emergency systems in place) in the event of activation or not? There are wall lights everywhere, floor sockets....no way that things will stay dry. Obviously it's an RCD protected install as it's being done to 17.1, but that alone may not disconnect. I've just been on the phone to my NICEIC inspector and he couldn't give me an answer either.

ive never seen that on commercial premises with sprinklers installed,so cant see why it should on domestic,i mean its either gonna burn or get wet,wouldnt mind some pics of this domestic sprinkler system if you can,i think all new builds should have them fitted..

 

[millar]

We had this problem at one of our jobs, a bungalow property for disabled adults.
The designer wanted it wired so the supply could not be isolated when isolating the mains board.
I will try and find out what the outcome was but im sure we put it into the mains board and had it on an RCBO,

 

[Engineer54]

That requirement is an American specification, and maybe one or two of our European cousins too. Actually it does make a lot of sense to have a tripping release to shut down the main electrical supply. Don't want our firemen being Zapped one by one as they walk around, with all those floor sockets... lol!!!

I must admit, i've never heard of a fire officer calling for a sprinkler system in a domestic premises. There must be hundreds of thousands of homes that are so far out in the sticks, a fire engine isn't going to get too them very quickly!!!

 

[alarm man]

there will be a few out the way where the brigade wont get there anywhere on time,personally i applaud the fire officer in this case he knows he cant get to the house in time and wants the owners and their property to be as safe as it can

 

[Rockingit]

I could make it happen easily enough; the house sub main is a 63A DP MCB fed 25mm SWA, so all I need to do is interrupt it with a 63A N/C 2 pole contactor, coil triggered from the float switch in their pumping system...the issue is whether I need to!

As I figure it, it's gonna go dark one way or another, so it's better to be in control, right? Also, in the same instance then I figure there ought to an emergency non-maintained over the stairs (also wouold be easy enough to do).

I'm amazed that as the regs seem to contain instructions these days on how we should be wiping our 4rses that there is no mention of this at all.

 

[Engineer54]

You mean expensive water damage rather than expensive fire damage. A good fire alarm would probably be of more use, with a manually activated sprinkler system or even a good few fire extinguishers dotted around the place, for when the need ''Really arises'', rather than on a fault or other superfluous release. Seen too many sprinkler systems going off for no reason in commercial premises.

 

[alarm man]

You mean expensive water damage rather than expensive fire damage. A good fire alarm would probably be of more use, with a manually activated sprinkler system or even a good few fire extinguishers dotted around the place, for when the need ''Really arises'', rather than on a fault or other superfluous release. Seen too many sprinkler systems going off for no reason in commercial premises.

a manual sprinkler system,not much use when your not in or asleep,sprinkler systems rarely fa from what i know,fire alarm systems do,intruder alarm system do,sprinklers are very very reliable

 

[Engineer54]

The fire alarm would wake them up if they were asleep. Your joking aren't you, ask the insureance companies how often they are paying out for sprinklers systems going off for no reason!! You'll be surprised!!

How about a manual/Auto system then...lol!! When at home set to manual, when out switch to auto?? lol!! I know i wouldn't have any form of sprinkler system in my home, and in Cyprus the fire brigades response times are to say the very least ''abysmal''!!

 

[Rockingit]

This system is the type with localised activation, with flush-ceiling plastic caps that 'melt' at around 70deg.

The new owners will be away for weeks on end overseas, and the place is half a mile into the woods down a dirt track, so I CAN understand the fire officers reasoning. Ironically, the very same fire officer only wanted to see ONE smoke alarm in the main downstairs hallway (building is sort-of three floors) and a CO in the kitchen (but it's just LPG feeding a gas range, no boilers etc).

It's me that's spec'd extra sensors, interlinked into the close-proximity wooden 10 car garage (with a log burner in the corner...)

 

[alarm man]

The fire alarm would wake them up if they were asleep. Your joking aren't you, ask the insureance companies how often they are paying out for sprinklers systems going off for no reason!! You'll be surprised!!

i think i would...

 

[Engineer54]

I ''Know'' you would!! lol!!

 

[alarm man]

I ''Know'' you would!! lol!!

i KNOW i wouldnt..tho i cant speak for china..

 

[Engineer54]

Then i KNOW your Wrong!!! lol!!!

 

[alarm man]

Then i KNOW your Wrong!!! lol!!!

but i know your wrong about me being wrong which in itself is wrong.....:stuart:

 

[Rockingit]

this thread is just wrong!

 

[Engineer54]

So all is very Wrong then!! OH well!!!... lol!!

 

[needasparks]

Was this really the fire officer that asked for it or because its on a commercial insurance the architect has specified it, if the latter you should ask for the specification from Mr sharp pencils and go with it. Its all an extra. And gives us a good kick about.

 

[Rockingit]

Apparently, according to the main chips on site, it was specified by the F.O. before the plans were approved. Which was MONTHS ago, and everybody knew except the electrician. The architect is good in the urine department, that's true, but sadly not on this occasion!

 

[Rockingit]

Amazingly, despite having told them that we don't HAVE to, the architect is recommending that I put together an engineering solution to put to the client. Watch this space.

 

[Rockingit]

OK, todays installment is that the client has over-ridden the architect and wants me to put in an isolation system.

BUT - I thought I'd share the following email with you, see what your comments are. This is a direct copy and paste, from the architect to the client:

The Electrician has suggested that good practice would be to fit a circuit breaker in the power supply to cut power to the property in the event the sprinkler system is activated.

I have subsequently spoken with the director of [??????] Fire Systems, who also serves on the Technical Committees of BAFSA and BRE, and his recommendation is that this has not been incorporated into the British Standard, as should an occurrence arise power could be cut prematurely to a lesser risk and make a situation more hazardous. Therefore his recommendation is that this approach is not necessary and I feel in agreement.