I know of two companies. One based in the East Midlands and the other in Morayshire. Plus there must be the one in Wales that is all over the press.
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I know of two companies. One based in the East Midlands and the other in Morayshire. Plus there must be the one in Wales that is all over the press.
Finished reading the BRE guide by Martin Cotterell over the weekend. Hoped it would be more illuminating with more content. As soon as it gets anywhere near serious technical in section 7 it simply refers to the IET Solar CoP. Feel I should have bought that instead.
All a bit disappointing.
All a bit disappointing.
It's a very broad overview isn't it....
Are you saying you didn't buy the IET PV CoP yet?!...tut tut
Are you saying you didn't buy the IET PV CoP yet?!...tut tut
There is work going on in MCS to produce a new version of the PV Guide covering IET changes (eg earthing) which would mean installers didn't need the IET CoP as well. Original thought had been to produce a version of the PV Guide that covered all aspects not in IET CoP, eg output estimation, civils, wind loading etc.
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Incidentally, if you are going to buy the Cop, it is cheaper on Amazon than in the IET shop unless you are a member.
I had a 25% discount code when I bought mine, SEUK2015, not sure if still valid though
(p'haps they don't like me ! )The discount code expired on 31st October. I was trying to use this as well. Cheapest route would be to find an IET member to buy it for you........ Purchased a copy on Amazon for £53.40 as would waste more time than the money saved doing anything else.
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t4sltd
Thanks for all of the above. I too was annoyed that the BRE guide refers to IET COP (which I never bought). Managed to blag a free copy as I provided input (which they ignored) - I questioned their requirement for bonding. I am an IET memebr if anyone wants a discounted copy posted to them get in touch.
As an interesting aside I have been added to reviewers for IET battery stroage COP and note that Martin Coterrell is now using a Tesla email address.
As an interesting aside I have been added to reviewers for IET battery stroage COP and note that Martin Coterrell is now using a Tesla email address.
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t4sltd
Re: calculations of costs for energy storage; you all have valid methods and points and the more you look at it the worse the business case. You are reliant on price inflation to get break even really.
I went to Wattsor training - they seem to know what they are doing and admit it doesn't really give a payback. Shame the first thing you have to do is move the house earth to an earth rod.
Went to Victron 'techncial' training with PV Kits Sales Manager who couldn't answer questions re: earthing or G83. He tried to prove that the Victron system would pay for itself within the 10 year 'lifetime' of the batteries but got his numbers wrong and failed.
Interesting to note that some suppliers don't feel the need for battery fuse / isolators in their kits.
I went to Wattsor training - they seem to know what they are doing and admit it doesn't really give a payback. Shame the first thing you have to do is move the house earth to an earth rod.
Went to Victron 'techncial' training with PV Kits Sales Manager who couldn't answer questions re: earthing or G83. He tried to prove that the Victron system would pay for itself within the 10 year 'lifetime' of the batteries but got his numbers wrong and failed.
Interesting to note that some suppliers don't feel the need for battery fuse / isolators in their kits.
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t4sltd
I am currently investigating battery storage for future projects (grant funded) and have a few questions on legal compliance. I know its early days but would welcome guidance (and happy to share what I have learnt to date):
1) Using G83 kit we notify post installation (assuming export is under 16A)?
2) If in island mode (e.g. Victron) you need to break connection to suppliers earth? (and use a local earth?)
3) has anyone done a fire risk assesment for LiIon in a loft?!
1) Using G83 kit we notify post installation (assuming export is under 16A)?
2) If in island mode (e.g. Victron) you need to break connection to suppliers earth? (and use a local earth?)
3) has anyone done a fire risk assesment for LiIon in a loft?!
1) Only if the only generator on site, else theoretically G59, in practice a G83 PRIOR to install is needed.
2) Yes, that's what you do with all genny's. - Break all three, Line, Neutral and Earth.
3) Nope, we don't install inverters in lofts except as last resort
(even moved one out to the garage the other day that was installed by a third party when we replaced it (faulty Mastervolt)Attended a session on storage run by The Energy Savings Trust Scotland yesterday at West College in Glasgow. Had had some involvement in advising on speakers which resulted in Steve Pester from the BRE Solar Centre being there. As always he was very good , but had nowhere near enough time. Was also a Consultant from Delta Energy and Environment talking about the market. Even he could not get payback periods correct!
Of most importance was a conversation in a breakout session with the UK technical manager of Solaredge. He is also involved in dialogue with the DNOs via the Energy Networks Association.
There is mention in a thread on the other side about permissions. From his discussions he confirmed that at this point in time any AC connected battery storage system requires G59 permission to connect as the capacity is additional to that of the PV Inverter. There will be changes and clarifications announced in the coming months, but that is the current position.
DC connected systems like the Tesla (which Solaredge support) are unaffected as the inverter is still the limitation point.
Of most importance was a conversation in a breakout session with the UK technical manager of Solaredge. He is also involved in dialogue with the DNOs via the Energy Networks Association.
There is mention in a thread on the other side about permissions. From his discussions he confirmed that at this point in time any AC connected battery storage system requires G59 permission to connect as the capacity is additional to that of the PV Inverter. There will be changes and clarifications announced in the coming months, but that is the current position.
DC connected systems like the Tesla (which Solaredge support) are unaffected as the inverter is still the limitation point.
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TedM
Presume the G59 only applies if you are going above 16A per phase?
Good to see some common-sense prevailing, at least.
Good to see some common-sense prevailing, at least.
As I understand part of the problem is that AC side charge contoller/inverters are not G83 tested or certified.
some are, but if done in addition to a 16A solar inverter to take the total above 16amps means they'd need to be G59 certified, which most aren't.
I'd be inclined to argue that the actual plant is still designed not to export more than 16amps to the grid - ie the DNC of the plant is still 16amps / 3680W.
You may find these documents of use. they were referenced by a German guy doing training today on the Samsung Inverter/battery.
Can be used to calculate storage contribution etc from sizing. a bit to wade through and may be need to extrapolate away from 1000kWh/kWp used for output in calculation.
Thoughts on Samsung are it is a bit small having a usable battery capacity of only 3.24kW. Rating is also 2kW meaning it will only contribute to evening peak. Is well engineered and thought out but expensive at around £3.8K
Can be used to calculate storage contribution etc from sizing. a bit to wade through and may be need to extrapolate away from 1000kWh/kWp used for output in calculation.
Thoughts on Samsung are it is a bit small having a usable battery capacity of only 3.24kW. Rating is also 2kW meaning it will only contribute to evening peak. Is well engineered and thought out but expensive at around £3.8K
Anybody else looking at becoming a Tesla Authorised reseller?
Have gone through the process of providing loads of evidence to allow for due diligence to get this.
Tesla are determined to keep out any business or organisation that may mis-sell or provide a poor customer experience.
Despite my misgivings about the sheer size of the thing, we are doing our first one in the next couple of weeks.
Was at an energy show last week in Glasgow where people were taking selfies with the battery. Whether or not it is the best solution, it is certainly the best marketed.
Have gone through the process of providing loads of evidence to allow for due diligence to get this.
Tesla are determined to keep out any business or organisation that may mis-sell or provide a poor customer experience.
Despite my misgivings about the sheer size of the thing, we are doing our first one in the next couple of weeks.
Was at an energy show last week in Glasgow where people were taking selfies with the battery. Whether or not it is the best solution, it is certainly the best marketed.
Draft IET Storage Code of Practice.
I have a copy of this if anyone is interested. Unable to load to site as it is over 2mb. Tried zipping it but still too large. If anyone would like a copy please PM me.
At the moment the section (10) on G83 permission for AC side coupled systems is unsatisfactory, as the way it is worded would mean a G59 is required every time. My view is this should be termed as an export limit of 16amp. Most 'Behind the Meter' battery systems are designed not to export to the grid. Feel it is incumbent on the equipment manufacturers to provide evidence of this and how it works to satisfy requirements of DNOs, otherwise this would be a major barrier to development of the 'Behind the Meter' storage market.
I have a copy of this if anyone is interested. Unable to load to site as it is over 2mb. Tried zipping it but still too large. If anyone would like a copy please PM me.
At the moment the section (10) on G83 permission for AC side coupled systems is unsatisfactory, as the way it is worded would mean a G59 is required every time. My view is this should be termed as an export limit of 16amp. Most 'Behind the Meter' battery systems are designed not to export to the grid. Feel it is incumbent on the equipment manufacturers to provide evidence of this and how it works to satisfy requirements of DNOs, otherwise this would be a major barrier to development of the 'Behind the Meter' storage market.
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t4sltd
I have been submitting G59 applications to UK Power Networks to extend 4kW (and below) PV systems by 300 - 500W. It is part of a project installing 35 systems as a trial After confirming that the systems aneed G59 applications they have now told me to use G83 notification after the install. I think they don't want the paperwork.
Tesla's 10kWh Powerwall was only ever intended to be a "backup" system, in case of mains loss, not a "storage" solution.....just not viable, especially here in the UK
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t4sltd
I could fit if no-one closer wants to. Have installed two and have 6 on order to fit next year (all with Sunny Boy Storage).
Stock of Powerwall 1 is getting low in the UK and not sure if they will ship more as TESLA will start shipping Powerwall 2 next year.
Stock of Powerwall 1 is getting low in the UK and not sure if they will ship more as TESLA will start shipping Powerwall 2 next year.
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t4sltd
Anybody got experience applying for G59 approval with WPD for battery systems (Sunny Boy and Sunny Island)? Contacts for anyone in WPD who has approved one of these systems would be helpful .
They are currently insisting on application under G100 (export limiting schemes) to verify that the system will not export as its not G100 type approved yet. Anyone got any experience doing G100 witness tests with WPD?
I seem to have submitted the first G59 (and G100) application for a domestic battery storage system in the East Midlands.
Will keep you posted.
They are currently insisting on application under G100 (export limiting schemes) to verify that the system will not export as its not G100 type approved yet. Anyone got any experience doing G100 witness tests with WPD?
I seem to have submitted the first G59 (and G100) application for a domestic battery storage system in the East Midlands.
Will keep you posted.
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