Tier 4

[Zerax]

Oh, and by the way, the masks people are being told to wear have not been made or tested to any British or international standard - so no-one knows their permeability to air or impermeability to viruses.

Yes... this is most certainly true... and, IMHO the idiotic and moronic general public seem to think that wearing one gives them instant, total immunity. It amazes me that when I go into a supermarket, it's full of families that appear to be having some sort of shopping 'day out' !! Of course, they are each dutifully wearing a mask... so that's ok then.

Surely we must now rue the day when we banned 'common sense'...

 

[Selfmade]

Yes... this is most certainly true... and, IMHO the idiotic and moronic general public seem to think that wearing one gives them instant, total immunity. It amazes me that when I go into a supermarket, it's full of families that appear to be having some sort of shopping 'day out' !! Of course, they are each dutifully wearing a mask... so that's ok then.

Surely we must now rue the day when we banned 'common sense'...

I agree up to a point - but I would say if they believe the masks will keep them safe then that's their choice, except perhaps when it comes to the children. Personally, I'll go for good diet, sunlight fresh air and exercise any day.

 

[Zerax]

I would take a bet, you dont know anybody that has had the virus or died from it.

Many many people have had it... don't forget that the 'official' figures for 'cases' are only for confirmed cases...i.e. after you've had a positive test. The vast majority of people that have had it, are asymptomatic or very mild such that they don't need a test. That's why that ridiculous graph they keep showing of 'cases' over time for this year is largely nonsense... the number of cases goes up with the number of tests that are conducted ! So the size of the 'lump' in April is not at all relatable to the size of the 'lump' in recent weeks... for the simple reason that we are doing far far far more testing !

 

[Selfmade]

A bit of satire from some conspiracy theorists: https://ia801707.us.archive.org/4/items/eFilingComics3/37_Asterix_and_the_Chariot_Race.pdf . Oh wait, this was published in 2017. I rest my case.

TLDR? Turn to page 14, then page 39.

 

[7029 dave]

Absolutely correct. And nor has anyone I've spoken to.

I thought so, if you had a loved one in ICU fighting to stay alive or killed from this virus your views would be different.
This is no scam its very real, IMO man made virus etc (but thats another story)

 

[Selfmade]

Many many people have had it... don't forget that the 'official' figures for 'cases' are only for confirmed cases...i.e. after you've had a positive test. The vast majority of people that have had it, are asymptomatic or very mild such that they don't need a test. That's why that ridiculous graph they keep showing of 'cases' over time for this year is largely nonsense... the number of cases goes up with the number of tests that are conducted ! So the size of the 'lump' in April is not at all relatable to the size of the 'lump' in recent weeks... for the simple reason that we are doing far far far more testing !

The tests produce huge numbers - something like 97% I believe - false positives. Quite agree with regard to the cumulative figures being nonsense. And not adjusting for increased testing is just plain ridiculous and dishonest.

 

[Zerax]

...but I would say if they believe the masks will keep them safe then that's their choice.

No... you've misunderstood what the point of the mask is (just like the majority of the general public)... a 'simple' mask merely limits the extent that your breath will travel, thus it reduces the distance over which you might pass on the virus. It does very very little to protect the wearer. (yes, I know there are some masks that do, but they are specialities not often seen)

And don't forget that the majority of people that have the virus are asymptomatic... so they won't know they have it !

 

[plugsandsparks]

Yet some people have filmed inside hospitals and they are empty. I know someone who worked in a hospital (in a non-medical capacity) and said it became empty after the 'pandemic' started.

There are choices. No-one has the right to tell others how to look after their own health. Give me a document to sign that I will never accept treatment from the NHS and I can have my freedom back and I will sign in right away.

I'm not familiar with the work of Milton Friedman so can't comment on this. As for experts in pandemics, there was one (I think it was the Swine flue) that was ultimately outed as a scam even by the mainstream media.

Its OK, there are just a few people i am listening to on the Covid situation, Chris Whitty, who has a number of lectures available to view, if you are interested. 2 GPs in my village and 2 of my family who work in the NHS.
Milton Friedman discusses, at length, freedom in a capitalist society, worth a listen to over Xmas, his lectures are spectacular. BUT i disagree with your premise that you can sign a document and get your freedom back. In our society the government have a role to stop the impact of others causing harm to 3rd parties, its part of the fundamental aspects of freedom and Milton describes it very very well.
So if you could guarantee that you will not cause harm to others, no problem, but this is a pandemic and there are no guarantees possible. Even when you are dead you are still an infection problem for others.

Time to suck it up, lol - it will get better... eventually

 

[Zerax]

The tests produce huge numbers - something like 97% I believe - false positives.

You're wrong again... sorry. There are several different 'flavours' of tests... some better than others. But even the worst ones (the 'flow' type I think, like a pregnancy test) are far more accurate than that. But the accuracy is each way... so some tests fail to pick up the virus and they can give a false positive. It's complicated I know...

And of course, the test merely shows the immediate 'as of now' situation... so it might show as being negative on a Monday, but by Tuesday a moron in a mask shopper in Lidl might have passed it on to you !

 

[DPG]

As I've said before, I know several people who have had Covid. All were fit and healthy, in fact two of them were regular gym goers, which may well be where they caught it, who knows. Four of these people had bad symptoms, and two have had months of long term respiratory problems ever since. Make no mistake, this is not just flu.

The penny will drop for you at some point that it is not a government conspiracy. Hopefully it won't take the illness/death of someone you love.

 

[DPG]

You're wrong again... sorry. There are several different 'flavours' of tests... some better than others. But even the worst ones (the 'flow' type I think, like a pregnancy test) are far more accurate than that. But the accuracy is each way... so some tests fail to pick up the virus and they can give a false positive. It's complicated I know...

And of course, the test merely shows the immediate 'as of now' situation... so it might show as being negative on a Monday, but by Tuesday a moron in a mask shopper in Lidl might have passed it on to you !

Absolutely. Tests for most diseases will result in a number of false positives and false negatives. There is no such thing as a perfect test. If you use your logic (selfmade) then testing for any disease is a waste of time.

 

[7029 dave]

Those poor lorry drivers stuck in Kent, now that IMO is political, the French are just using covid as a smoke screen.

 

[littlespark]

I believe the tests are biased toward a false positive. Better that than a positive case thinking they are negative and spreading it without knowing.

As for the belief it’s man made? I don’t buy that. Viruses can evolve from something that cannot affect you into something like this. Technology now can detect these viruses much better than we used to, we’ve possibly been living through pandemic after pandemic without knowing it.

And to blame China is like blaming Henry Ford for every car accident.

 

[Zerax]

Those poor lorry drivers stuck in Kent, now that IMO is political, the French are just using covid as a smoke screen.

I agree... I think Napoleon is just trying to show us who's in control ! The arrival of this new mutant strain was pure luck for him !

I'm hoping that somehow, post Brexit we move all ferry traffic up to Holland... to stop him doing the same thing again.

Didn't Spain use a similar tactic a while ago when we told them (for the umpteenth time !) that Gibraltar was British and they should stop banging on about it...

 

[littlespark]

France blocking the ports isn’t new. Swine flu, mad cow, industrial strike action.... or just because they gosh darn felt like it.

 

[Zerax]

France blocking the ports isn’t new. Swine flu, mad cow, industrial strike action.... or just because they gosh darn felt like it.

Hence the expression "the revolting French" ?

 

[Strima]

Absolutely correct. And nor has anyone I've spoken to.

One family member dead and a mate spent 33 days in ICU, got out in May and is still in rehab now. Admittedly both had underlying conditions but it's still a nasty virus the way it attacks your body.

I'm sitting on the fence on this one but I can see merits and faults in both sides of the arguement.

 

[Selfmade]

One family member dead and a mate spent 33 days in ICU, got out in May and is still in rehab now. Admittedly both had underlying conditions but it's still a nasty virus the way it attacks your body.

I'm sitting on the fence on this one but I can see merits and faults in both sides of the arguement.

So sorry for your loss Strima. That is really sad. But I'm also glad you can still take an objective view of it, unlike so many. Of course some are dying. Maybe even slightly more than from regular flu. But it's a sliding scale - where on that scale do we decide suddenly that we have to shut everything down? How can we ignore the people dying from starvation in developing countries because their income from tourism has been cut off? Or those in this country dying because their operations were cancelled when the NHS was changed to the National Covid Service? Or those committing suicide because they have lost everything and see no way forward? Or those trapped indoors with domestic abusers? Or those who face decades of poverty because they have lost jobs or businesses? And I will never believe that the government has the prerogative to impose all this on people, especially when there are so many experts saying the cure is far, far worse than the illness. Why couldn't they just encourage and support those who were vulnerable to (voluntarily) self-isolate?

 

[Midwest]

Personally I believe and accept that this a nasty virus, that we should all take the governments advice and guidance on (via SAGE), social distancing, masks, testing etc etc.

I work in a Care Home, and we have been very lucky, with very few Covid related deaths. However, there are many other Care Homes that have not been so fortunate. We take various precautions, 'cos once it gets in, we could be one of those unfortunate places.

It does dismay me though, when I see people not following the guidance, and the way some people perceive the threat.

We have many visiting contractors, for essential works. We generally require a recent negative Covid test result, but thats not always possible. They have to sign various disclosures and confirmations, and have their temperatures taken.

Restrictions have eased in recent weeks, as to what is essential or not. Had one in today to work on a kitchen appliance. I asked if he has a recent negative test. No he replied. I said ok sign these forms and I will take your skin temperature.

'I haven't got Covid', he said.

'How do you know, if you haven't had a recent test?' I said.

'I would know, if I had Covid, I wouldn't be here, if I had it'.

'But how do you know, if you have not got Covid, without having had a recent test; have you not heard of being asymptomatic?'. No reply, thick idiot.

 

[DPG]

So sorry for your loss Strima. That is really sad. But I'm also glad you can still take an objective view of it, unlike so many. Of course some are dying. Maybe even slightly more than from regular flu. But it's a sliding scale - where on that scale do we decide suddenly that we have to shut everything down? How can we ignore the people dying from starvation in developing countries because their income from tourism has been cut off? Or those in this country dying because their operations were cancelled when the NHS was changed to the National Covid Service? Or those committing suicide because they have lost everything and see no way forward? Or those trapped indoors with domestic abusers? Or those who face decades of poverty because they have lost jobs or businesses? And I will never believe that the government has the prerogative to impose all this on people, especially when there are so many experts saying the cure is far, far worse than the illness. Why couldn't they just encourage and support those who were vulnerable to (voluntarily) self-isolate?

But it's not just the government. The opposition mostly agree, as do the devolved UK territories. And as do most other countries. Not sure why you concentrate on it being something the Tory government is doing.