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I've been asked to design a panel for 2x 3phase comressors and 2x 3phase vacuum pumps.
Non of the motors can start at the same time and between the 2, they have to run alternately. The vacuum pumps need to be wired so that if more vacuum is needed the other will start. Keep in mind that when the system is not being used the pumps will work alternately....
TIA
 
I'm asking for help on what i need to design this panel. To make them work alrernatly I can use a "flip flop relay". How do I incorporate the vacuum pumps to work alternately as well as standby if one cannot cope with what is required?
 
What I meant was after it has been used.... before it is used again. They use the vacuum and pressure for different reasons in the lab. If they start at the same time the current spike is very high.
 
So what you are saying if the compressors are running the vacuum pumps cannot start and visa versa. With the vacuum pumps only one can be started initially but there is a facility for the second to kick in if required.
 
Yes, but after each cycle the vacuum pumps will start alternatively. So vacuum 1 will start and if required vacuum 2 will start. The next time vacuum is required vacuum 2 will start and if more vacuum is needed then vacuum 1 will start
 
I think, knowing the use the vacuum is going to be for could help.
Is the vacuum to be used as fume extract?
Is it to vacuum liquid, will there be a catch tank?
Is it to be distributed?
Is it for a delivery system?
Is it to hold something in place?
Is it to be used for vacuum packaging?
 
This is what i have come up with and it will work. However, they don't want the timer to be used. Instead, they want me to use 2 pressure switches

Vacuum and compressor automation 1550751918175-552723564 - EletriciansForums.net
 
Rob - I can see the need for compliance with EN60204-1 but if he built the system, bit of a long shot from what we've seen thus far, with ce marked products is there further requirement for ce certification?

I've never heard of the necessity for logic system built with a plc or a few relays.
 
Rob - I can see the need for compliance with EN60204-1 but if he built the system, bit of a long shot from what we've seen thus far, with ce marked products is there further requirement for ce certification?

I've never heard of the necessity for logic system built with a plc or a few relays.

Yes anything built like that needs to fill CE requirments.

Not got time into going over it now but take a look at this:

Conformity assessment - Work equipment and machinery - http://www.hse.gov.uk/work-equipment-machinery/conformity.htm
 
I'm still surprised because I know that people who custom build control panels have too but you can buy ce marked push button assemblies etc.

I know someone who installs siemens gear, check out there sirius range to see what I'm talking about, and he never mentioned it when we chatted about the technicalities of the subject nor was there any comments on the siemens forums.

I posted a question on there forum so I guess I'll see soon.
 
OK maybe an example would help.

If I had a lv commercial installation using all schneider gear with a key switch controlling an acti 9 relay controlling lights. All wiring installed to bs7671. Do I need to worry about ce certification?
 
OK maybe an example would help.

If I had a lv commercial installation using all schneider gear with a key switch controlling an acti 9 relay controlling lights. All wiring installed to bs7671. Do I need to worry about ce certification?
If this is a stand alone control panel, then yes, and BS 7671 would not be the relevant standard. If it is for lighting it would be the EN 61439 series, and you must CE mark in accordance with the Low Voltage Directive.
If it is to control machinery then the design and build standard would be EN 60204-1 (for general machinery, there are a couple of specific machine types that are outside this).
Using all CE marked components does not make the assembly CE marked.
I can take you through every reason if you like, but we'll be here a very long time, and I'm off to China Saturday for a few weeks, to advise a Chinese machinery builder on CE marking of their machinery and electrical panels.
I do much more of this now than I do electrical works, as my background is in machinery, and I used to do this before redundancy and self-employment.
What Rob has said is correct.

If you are designing and building electrical panels, there is a lot more involved, as the panel becomes a product in its own right, and that must be CE marked.

If it is controlling machinery, then the assembly of panel and machine must comply with the Machinery Directive.

This is the same concept as when you mix and match MCB's in a distribution board, like it or not, when you do that, you become the manufacturer of the assembly in the eyes of the law.

Oh, and as of the end of March no matter what happens, the only thing that changes will be CE being becoming UKCA marking for the UK market.
 
Is there a simple guide available as to what does/doesn't require CE marking?

Being required to CE mark a single relay in an enclosure controlling lights seems to be over the top and somewhat unenforceable.
It can be tricky to know what applies but the using the relay example, if you put the bits together for yourself for use in your own premises then no CE mark is needed. I'd apply that if you did a job for a customer who, for practical purposes, might have bought the parts on your advice and you fit them. If you put the relay in a box and sold it on Amazon as a lighting contactor then it would need certification.

From the UK government guidance..

Using electrical equipment on your own premises
Electrical equipment that is intended for use by you in your own premises is controlled by the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994. Such equipment must satisfy the safety requirements of the regulations, but need not have CE marking.

However, should you subsequently decide to supply the equipment - eg by selling it or hiring it out - it will be subject to the relevant provisions of the regulations, including the CE marking requirements.
 

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