Fixings to kingspan for hanging tray

[CockneyReject]

With a passion mate, if he's so set against using common sense hand him your tools and tell him you'll come hang the tray once he's sorted some supports

stick to your guns and grind him down mate a set of tram lines is head and shoulders above trying to do anything with kingspan, out of interest what's the process?and if you penetrated the steel on the other side of the kingspan and sealed it afterwards why is here an issue with that method?definately don't envy you I hope he's paying you well for the ball ache he's causing

 

[edexlab]

I've just reread some of the threads and noticed some reference to the type of kingspan used as insulation (sandwiched between tin foil) this is not the type used here!
I'm talking about the stuff they use for industrial buildings has @1mm (I think) steel sheets with insulation between!

 

[edexlab]

Catenary wires also not of any use here due to reasons already mentioned plus there would need to be a few to replace 6" tray which wouldn't look good!
Can I reiterate its a decent fixing method that is relevant here not the install!

 

[davesparks]

I've just reread some of the threads and noticed some reference to the type of kingspan used as insulation (sandwiched between tin foil) this is not the type used here!
I'm talking about the stuff they use for industrial buildings has @1mm (I think) steel sheets with insulation between!

Right, it sounds just a little bit more viable now then, I think most people think of the standard insulating board when you say 'kingspan'

The question of what it holding the kingspan in place is still relevant, and the existing box section supports will still be infinately better. the call to kingspan technical will probably be slightly more productive too.

If it is 1mm steel sheet you'll probably get self drilling screws to hold fast in it, but you'll want a nut plate with as big a footprint as possible and a fair few fixing holes.

 

[CockneyReject]

So the insulated steel sheets are laid ontop of the steel box sections and fixed from the top??

The he only other things I can think of is but some uni up to the box sections and weld them or drill and tap the box section and screw the rods into it and lock off with nuts but as you say the spacing of the box sections aren't ideal

 

[edexlab]

Cockney reject
The process is environmental controls for moulds used for aerospace and other precision products.
They are a professional company, a world leader in this industry and this install method has been used for sometime, they're trying to break away from the "that's the way we've always done it" mentality and improve things for the product itself and the guys who install it and asked for suggestions on improvements that can be made,
This was one such suggestion, I've been given the job of looking at its viability as the guy who mentioned it just said you can't do it ,but didn't have any clue how to do it as he's only ever worked here!
Whereas I come from an installation background electrically and previously in engineering, but as usual they don't want to spend too much doing it

 

[edexlab]

The kingspan is self supporting really its built tight around the frame and rests upon it, but not fixed to it, however its not going anywhere,
they use angled flashing rivetted to it so it's strong enough to walk on due to the box section spans below.
I've already suggested welding drilling and tapping unistrut to frame etc but the present method is the inverted tray is on unistrut screwed to tapped holes in the box section, the idea is to reduce the distance of the supports for the tray and lower the amount of work onsite by using a quicker fixing method to reduce the time spent and give the option of running directly to equipment rather than taking a more indirect route by following the frame work .

 

[CockneyReject]

Ah right not been able to penetrate the ceiling fully makes more sense now, bit of a rock and a hard place situation then, I'd give up on looking for fixing methods through 1mm steel that will take the weight of the tray and the cables, use the kingspan tech department to your advantage hit the guy who's saying no to your preferred method with the facts and give him the big sell on the way you want to do it

 

[Tiny Spark]

The best thing would be to mount uni strut to the existing frame and then mount your tray to that I would think.
However if you must fit to the KS, If its the stuff I am thinking of you can sucessfully mount low weights to it using self tapping screws and support brackets.
I would think lots of top hat brackets would do the trick, Or if you need to put more weight on it can you fix a large spreader plate/s to the KS and then mount brackets and tray to that.
I dont see drilling right through being a problem as long as the holes are sealed back up properly (unless of course they are vac chambers or something?)

 

[sammyshooter]

Drill a hole, spray water Into it, gorilla glue the rod, screw it in, leave it a day.

That stuffs the nuts, it expands into all the little holes and the threads. Should give enough for your tray.

 

[edexlab]

Yeah I get all the good jobs lol story of my life!
I've done this kind of thing before, large chiller units, threaded rod through kingspan into strut above and below! in areas non visible to client plus it really was the only option!
However this product does look really good when finished so I can see why they're not keen on having strut visible on top of the cells, they'd have to hide it which is then creating more work, not the original intention!

 

[edexlab]

Drill a hole, spray water Into it, gorilla glue the rod, screw it in, leave it a day.

That stuffs the nuts, it expands into all the little holes and the threads. Should give enough for your tray.

I'm not saying your idea won't work it just doesn't sound
A) professional

B) like it'll last 20+ yrs which is the intended life of the product

No offence meant!

 

[edexlab]

Tiny I can't see the issue myself I know you can get covers for the rod and nut above , which look fine but apparently there was a problem previously which only happened on jobs where the kingspan was drilled through, I'm not sure what it was but I'm guessing a sealant may have not perfomed as it was meant to.

 

[shanky887614]

Tiny I can't see the issue myself I know you can get covers for the rod and nut above , which look fine but apparently there was a problem previously which only happened on jobs where the kingspan was drilled through, I'm not sure what it was but I'm guessing a sealant may have not perfomed as it was meant to.

if you drill with bolts in strut above to below it will be airtight, put some rubber under it if they want to create a seal as such

 

[davesparks]

Drill a hole, spray water Into it, gorilla glue the rod, screw it in, leave it a day.

That stuffs the nuts, it expands into all the little holes and the threads. Should give enough for your tray.

Apart from the bit where the solvent in the glue reacts with the fluff in the kingspan and leaves a gaping void in the middle of it you mean?

In theory both the kingspan fluff and the glue will be polyurethane, but we don't know how the liquid and solid forms will react with each other.

 

[Maddison]

Strut between walls can't be done here as it would interfere with the conveyor systems otherwise it probably would have worked.


Op said rod cannot go through to other side of kingspan.

Something like the fastbrolly, snaptoggle I've used both on board but would need to be pretty heavy duty more so than the aluminium types I've seen so may be a possibility if I can find a stronger type.
Thanks for the replies gents!

"Sky hooks" I was waiting for the idiot who was going to ignore the request for sensible answers..........
And you are it Maddison! Well done!
Must have taken you all afternoon to come up with that one!
I love a good laugh but at least think of something that isn't as old as the ark if you are going to try and be funny........................

haha you bit hard on this "sky hook" didnt you.. lets just hope.nobody is underneath all that tray when those fixings fail.. keep up the good work

 

[a1guvner]

Just a quick one to throw into the mix, i had to fix to a roof structure again about 1mm steel and we used Zipclips. Have a look at the Toggle it end that could be put through a hole, Standard Range | Zip-Clip

Might help you out

 

[edexlab]

haha you bit hard on this "sky hook" didnt you.. lets just hope.nobody is underneath all that tray when those fixings fail.. keep up the good work

Nope I don't bite at comments like that, just feel a bit for you really!

Try contributing from your own knowledge and experience instead that's the general idea of answering posts!

As this is just a theoretical exercise at the moment I think there's as much chance of my tray falling down as there is of you being funny!

Can someone let me know about this ignore button and how it works please

If its not strong enough it won't be installed ,
I'm going to road test a few different methods of fixing/s and see how they fare.

 

[Tiny Spark]

Tiny I can't see the issue myself I know you can get covers for the rod and nut above , which look fine but apparently there was a problem previously which only happened on jobs where the kingspan was drilled through, I'm not sure what it was but I'm guessing a sealant may have not perfomed as it was meant to.

I would think if the holes were pumped full of silicone or something similar it would be ok?
Or possibly some kind of resin filler?

I used to work in a pressurised clean room environment and you would be amazed the leaks we could bodge up with some silicone lol

 

[davesparks]

If it's steel sheet on the face of the king span could some sort of magnetic attachment be used?