Don't you just love the SNP......

[janner43]

I would tend to disagree. I would agree a lot of people, in the UK, are quite fed up with hearing this debate. I have no factual figures to back this up. But I also think that many people were also relieved that the 'No' campaign won through in the end. I believe we have a lot to promote ourselves as a nation, the UK and splitting up ultimately would make us all, third rate countries.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I believe in the UK. What gets on my wick is the constant moaning from the SNP & their activists who seem to think they should dictate policy for the entire UK. Scotland voted to stay in the union but once the SNP realised they were not going to govern the UK in a coalition with the Labour Party, they have done nothing but agitate for another vote on the same subject.

 

[sean_ork]

The chief agitator for another vote was the Cameroon chap with his English votes nonsense, perhaps mischievously his rat pack didn't tell him that Scots members have a long standing unwritten policy of abstaining in votes that apply only to the English.

The SNP have no need to do much campaigning for another vote, the Tory's are doing such a good job of it.

 

[Midwest]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I believe in the UK. What gets on my wick is the constant moaning from the SNP & their activists who seem to think they should dictate policy for the entire UK. Scotland voted to stay in the union but once the SNP realised they were not going to govern the UK in a coalition with the Labour Party, they have done nothing but agitate for another vote on the same subject.

I'm not a political animal like some. But in my opinion, on the last GE a lot of people were disenchanted with Labour, and the majority of Scottish people weren't going to vote Tory. It will be interesting to see what happens at the next referendum, which will be hopefully be after when Labour have sorted themselves out.

 

[Midwest]

Think I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread, my mailbox is not big enough.

 

[pcam1984]

I voted for Scotland to stay part of the U.K. mainly because I don't think you can trust salmons as far as you can throw him, in my opinion the SNP didn't make a good enough case to win the majority. The SNP started a civil war within Scotland never mind the uk! I'm proud to be Scottish and love everything about my country bu according to the yes side I don't have any right to say so. On the other hand it's mindless ar**holes like Janner that fan the flames and give ammo to the yes side. Sometimes the english arrogance blinds them. The rest of the U.K. Would be worse off without Scotland as part of the union, if they would put to bed the independence battle they could play a major part in shaping the future of the U.K. Some of the policies they stand for would benefit everyone, if they went about it in the right way! And just for the record I have never voted for them. At the end of the day all politicians are just as bad as each other

 

[janner43]

I'm not a political animal like some. But in my opinion, on the last GE a lot of people were disenchanted with Labour, and the majority of Scottish people weren't going to vote Tory. It will be interesting to see what happens at the next referendum, which will be hopefully be after when Labour have sorted themselves out.

That last bit is likely to take several years - if ever. At least one Labour commentator I have read believes that Mr. Corbyn's election and his coterie of acolytes are more interested in simply being in protest against everything than they are in winning an election.

Mind you, I agree with Ken Livingstone on one thing. He respects politicians who believe in what they stand for. So do I. I have little patience with those who simply try to tell the electorate what they think we want to hear solely to gain power.

Actually, that is one thing I respect about the Scottish Nationalist Party. That's who they are. That's what they stand for. So at least they are being consistent!

 

[YoungScud]

At the risk of repeating myself, I think you'll find that most English people couldn't care less if Scotland chooses independence.

Other than believing in the validity of a United Kingdom on purely philosophical grounds, my opinion is that if you Scots wanted to go then you all should have voted to go and then the remaining country could just have gotten on quite nicely without you thank you very much.

I might go so far as to say that I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of the English would now be very glad to see you have independence. I strongly suspect that we are all thoroughly fed up with listening to the almost incessant complaining that we get from north of the border.

In fact, perhaps I could ask my MP to add a question to the EU referendum - only for we English, of course, that asks...

"Are you fed up with subsidising free prescription costs and free university places for Scotland and would you prefer it if they were an independent republic without the £, without the Army, Navy & Airforce and without any financial help from the rest of the U.K. "

My guess is there would be a massive vote of YES!

Oh yes and let me just say that Devonport Dockyard would only be too happy to accept the role as the English and Welsh base for our nuclear submarine fleet. Oh yes, and we have enough spare capacity in Aldershot and other Army towns for any army bases that might still be lingering in Scotland. To tell you the truth, we have a huge airport in Cornwall that would also be thrilled to give a home to any planes and staff in that area as well.

Feel free to keep all the land in your country. Oh yes, and all the debt, unemployment, and health costs. Enjoy paying for everything that you currently enjoy. You'll find your taxes dramatically increase and your service levels dramatically decrease. Let's not mention the financial constraints you will have to endure to stand any chance at all of entering the EU and the Euro.

Yes, on balance I think a resounding "for pity's sake, please just go!!" is what you will hear from most of us English.

If, on the other hand you would like to stay as part of the United Kingdom, then I suspect you will continue to be just as you say, "a thorn in the political Arse of the U.K."

"Other than believing in the validity of a United Kingdom on purely philosophical grounds, my opinion is that if you Scots wanted to go then you all should have voted to go"

So, let me see if I've got this right. You fully and unreservedly accept all responsibility for the worst excesses of the Tory government, right. If you didn't, you wouldn't have voted them in.


"Are you fed up with subsidising free prescription costs blah, blah, blah..."

Simple request. Please supply the figures which suggest that you subsidise one penny of the aforementioned. I won't hold my breath. Of course, it's an easy and popular lie to sell.


"Oh yes and let me just say that Devonport Dockyard would only be too happy to accept the role as the English and Welsh base for our nuclear submarine fleet."

If you'd thought that one out a bit, you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself so badly. Milford Haven maybe, but Devonport is a non-starter.

"a thorn in the political Arse of the U.K."

This is another one I love. You are aware, are you not, that the existence of the UK is predicated on the Union of the Parliaments? People like you always like to talk as if Scotland is a kind of adjunct to the UK. If Scotland leaves, it is no longer the UK, so you won't have to worry about it picking thorns out of it arse.

 

[YoungScud]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I believe in the UK. What gets on my wick is the constant moaning from the SNP & their activists who seem to think they should dictate policy for the entire UK. Scotland voted to stay in the union but once the SNP realised they were not going to govern the UK in a coalition with the Labour Party, they have done nothing but agitate for another vote on the same subject.

I find in a modern democracy it's a strange idea to proclaim that, once a referendum is held, the issue dies with it. Had that been the case, we'd still be sending boys up chimneys and we'd still have slavery. The SNP never at any point made any bones about the possibility of a coalition in the event of a hung Parliament. Why would that be anathema to you? In 2015, they gained 56 seats. The previous Parliament operated for five years with one of the coalition partners having 57 seats. However, leaving that particular piece of stunning bigotry aside, I'm not sure what you'sd expect a party whose constitution is based on Scottis independence to work toward. They're not agitating for independence, they're doing what they're constitutionally obliged to do. Meanwhile, as they've done for several years now, they're carrying on with business as usual, running the affairs of a sovereign nation as best they can, and to suggest that that's all they do is staggeringly ignorant.

 

[YoungScud]

Actually, that is one thing I respect about the Scottish Nationalist Party. That's who they are. That's what they stand for. So at least they are being consistent!

Damned with faint praise.

 

[MikeL1]

What a terrific post, took ages to read it but some very interesting facts, and I just love the we want 'FREEDOM' from the Scottish contingent.
I have lived & worked in Scotland for 33 yrs, married a Scottish girl and have two children born and raised in Scotland.
As an outsider, yes believe it or not I have never been accepted in Scotland, I am that person from Englandshire, but you know what it's water off a ducks back, the mindless supporters of the SNP have created the mindless siege mentality in this terrific country. It has destroyed Scotland from the one I know, people have changed, the hatred for the English can be frightening, but this is exactly what President Salmond and now the First Lady of Scotland wanted, and they have truly succeeded.
The hatred for everything not Scottish is unbelievable, but in true fashion the true people of Scotland seen right through the Independance smokescreen and voted for the correct decision.
I have already received my notice from my employer that as I work in Scotland and my main residence is in the Scotland I must now be prepared to accept a possible 3% increase in my Income Tax from April 6th 2016.
Personally in a sick sort of way I hope it does increase because it will be the death knell for Queen Nicola, Chancellor Swinney and their band of merry men & women who keep banging the Independance drum.
I could go on forever but I will stand back now and see what sort of hatred will be fired at me from my neighbours, colleagues and SNP foot soldiers in the next few posts.

 

[YoungScud]

What a terrific post, took ages to read it but some very interesting facts, and I just love the we want 'FREEDOM' from the Scottish contingent.
I have lived & worked in Scotland for 33 yrs, married a Scottish girl and have two children born and raised in Scotland.
As an outsider, yes believe it or not I have never been accepted in Scotland, I am that person from Englandshire, but you know what it's water off a ducks back, the mindless supporters of the SNP have created the mindless siege mentality in this terrific country. It has destroyed Scotland from the one I know, people have changed, the hatred for the English can be frightening, but this is exactly what President Salmond and now the First Lady of Scotland wanted, and they have truly succeeded.
The hatred for everything not Scottish is unbelievable, but in true fashion the true people of Scotland seen right through the Independance smokescreen and voted for the correct decision.
I have already received my notice from my employer that as I work in Scotland and my main residence is in the Scotland I must now be prepared to accept a possible 3% increase in my Income Tax from April 6th 2016.
Personally in a sick sort of way I hope it does increase because it will be the death knell for Queen Nicola, Chancellor Swinney and their band of merry men & women who keep banging the Independance drum.
I could go on forever but I will stand back now and see what sort of hatred will be fired at me from my neighbours, colleagues and SNP foot soldiers in the next few posts.

Do I seem mindless to you? You don't think I put some thought into what I post? There is absolutely no doubt that there are ignorant Scots, but I'm not sure how that makes us different from any other country. As far as England bashing goes, if you're claiming that is SNP policy, then you're flat out a liar. I'm a supporter of independence but as for England, I have no special enmity. My son was born there. I lived there for years. As much as you'd like it to be about hating England, it isn't. It's about us, not England. Nice try about taxation too. Varying income tax was a power granted under devolution from its inception. Yet anothet myth exposed. Keep 'em coming.

 

[UNG]

Do I seem mindless to you?

In a word YES

 

[malcolmsanford]

"Other than believing in the validity of a United Kingdom on purely philosophical grounds, my opinion is that if you Scots wanted to go then you all should have voted to go"

So, let me see if I've got this right. You fully and unreservedly accept all responsibility for the worst excesses of the Tory government, right. If you didn't, you wouldn't have voted them in.


"Are you fed up with subsidising free prescription costs blah, blah, blah..."

Simple request. Please supply the figures which suggest that you subsidise one penny of the aforementioned. I won't hold my breath. Of course, it's an easy and popular lie to sell.

Scotland has 8.4% of the UK population, 32% of the land mass and in 2012–2013 generated 9.1% (£53.1bn) of UK tax revenues, and received 9.3% (£65.2bn) of UK spending back from Westminster. In 2012–2013, this amounted to a budget deficit of 8.3% of GDP, higher than the UK's overall budget deficit for the same period of 7.3% of GDP including a geographic share of North Sea oil.

"Oh yes and let me just say that Devonport Dockyard would only be too happy to accept the role as the English and Welsh base for our nuclear submarine fleet."

If you'd thought that one out a bit, you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself so badly. Milford Haven maybe, but Devonport is a non-starter.

"a thorn in the political Arse of the U.K."

This is another one I love. You are aware, are you not, that the existence of the UK is predicated on the Union of the Parliaments? People like you always like to talk as if Scotland is a kind of adjunct to the UK. If Scotland leaves, it is no longer the UK, so you won't have to worry about it picking thorns out of it arse.

There again when young Sean comes on he will decry the google fact. So I guess you can say that in some way the UK tax payer is contributing more in returned venue than Scottish tax payer generate.

Of course don't let fact spoil a good rant lads..........

 

[MikeL1]

Youngscud
Taxation, yes it was granted under devolution, for you as a Scot are you actually going to accept an increase in your income tax, is this what Independance is all about?
I think not, but it is just one small change which will affect all working people in Scotland, will SNP voters raise their hands and praise First Lady Sturgeon for bringing in more revenue by taking it from her own supporters, not a chance, there will be anarchy in the country when you have less money in your pocket, and the rest of the UK will look like paradise.
And this is just the first step to a potential further five years of mob rule in Scotland.
Good luck matey, keep on banging that drum because you will eventually get what you want but when it happens there is no going back.
Remember that not everything you want is good, but by then it's too late and your country will have to live with the consequences.

 

[Octopus]

If Nicola Sturgeon really believed in increased spending she WOULD have increased Scottish tax rates, but she won't as that would make her unpopular in Scotland and it's rare for a politician to do this!

 

[sean_ork]

There again when young Sean comes on he will decry the google fact. So I guess you can say that in some way the UK tax payer is contributing more in returned venue than Scottish tax payer generate.

Of course don't let fact spoil a good rant lads..........

I'm not young, that's the first mistake you've made - the second mistake is clear to anyone who reads beyond the media headlines.

Googling for facts that suit your own argument appears to be the way of things on here, that's just intellectually lazy - but it'll be the reason why so many have no in depth knowledge of this topic, as is being continually illustrated by nearly every little Englander comment here.

I'm being lazy here, but rather than just believing the populist media headlines, try reading a little deeper, you might be rather surprised.

 

[MikeL1]

I totally agree, she will not compromise her popularity with the minority of Scots (SNP) voters.
But I do wonder if the huge slump in oil revenue can continue for both governments.
65,000 jobs have already been lost in 2015 (across all sectors) of the industry, this includes all supply chain companies as well.
Not a good place for the UK as s whole, and not only oil revenue but income tax revenue disappearing fast.

 

[sean_ork]

Youngscud
Taxation, yes it was granted under devolution, for you as a Scot are you actually going to accept an increase in your income tax, is this what Independance is all about?
I think not, but it is just one small change which will affect all working people in Scotland, will SNP voters raise their hands and praise First Lady Sturgeon for bringing in more revenue by taking it from her own supporters, not a chance, there will be anarchy in the country when you have less money in your pocket

For what it's worth, here's my response.

There won't be anarchy, that's just more NO scare mongering nonsense.

I'd be happy to pay a bit more tax, as long as it was spent in a manner that benefited society, currently there's an awful lot of our earnings being spent on things that really really don't benifit the general public here, that for me is one of the most significant aspects of Independence that appeals, masters of your own salvation.

I'm fairly sure you'd not be happy if your earnings were given to others, with an agreement that they'll give some of it back.

 

[MikeL1]

sean_ork
You keep on believing what you read, well done keep the movement going, but don't come running back for handouts from Westminster when it all goes pear shaped.
Must admit I like your loyalty to Lady Nicola and the Knights around the Holyrood Table, you are a credit to the MINORITY in Scotland, keep up the good work Nicola would be proud of you.

 

[sean_ork]

Malcolm, here's a question that Google can't help you answer, I note you've opted to avoid it previously so I'll ask it again.

What line of logic were you using when you posted the below, specifically the last sentence ?

Again the condescending attitude, it is wonder you can function with that chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry son but how ever much you want to be English you can't

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I have never met a Scot who wants to be English - do you really beleive such a person exists ?

 

[malcolmsanford]

I'm not young, that's the first mistake you've made - the second mistake is clear to anyone who reads beyond the media headlines.

Googling for facts that suit your own argument appears to be the way of things on here, that's just intellectually lazy - but it'll be the reason why so many have no in depth knowledge of this topic, as is being continually illustrated by nearly every little Englander comment here.

I'm being lazy here, but rather than just believing the populist media headlines, try reading a little deeper, you might be rather surprised.

Do you actually believe what you write son.

So every fact from any source that does not fall into line with the gospel according to Salmond is a false fact. Even though that googled fact was taken from a Scottish Government statistic.

Well they do say in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king.

 

[sean_ork]

sean_ork
You keep on believing what you read, well done keep the movement going, but don't come running back for handouts from Westminster when it all goes pear shaped.
Must admit I like your loyalty to Lady Nicola and the Knights around the Holyrood Table, you are a credit to the MINORITY in Scotland, keep up the good work Nicola would be proud of you.

Is making so many incorrect assumptions a trade defect ?

 

[sean_ork]

Do you actually believe what you write son.

So every fact from any source that does not fall into line with the gospel according to Salmond is a false fact. Even though that googled fact was taken from a Scottish Government statistic.

Can't you see in the comments you've posted that you yourself are entirely guilty of that which you accuse those who have an opposing view to yours ?

All you've done is to expose how little you really know on this topic, given your location and reliance on search engines for suitable "facts" you can be excused.

 

[MikeL1]

So what incorrect assumptions are you ion about, tell me the facts, real facts not the blind SNP ones that have completely divided Scotland.
I know, I live here. An outsider looking in with no political bias but I do object to the drivel that come out of Holyrood everyday.
Propaganda at its best.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Then Sean as the erudite person you are supply me a fact that said that UK taxpayers did not give money back via government funding to Scotland, and that stat for 2012-13 is flase....that is all I ask

Google it, pull it out of a hat, get mystic Meg to furnish it.....just a recorded fact that states what I ask.is that too much to ask?

If you can then fair enough I will concede the fact

 

[sean_ork]

So what incorrect assumptions are you ion about, tell me the facts, real facts not the blind SNP ones that have completely divided Scotland.
I know, I live here. An outsider looking in with no political bias but I do object to the drivel that come out of Holyrood everyday.
Propaganda at its best.

You've assumed I'm loyal the the SNP - that's incorrect
You've assumed I'm a loyal supporter of "lady Nicola" (your words) - that's incorrect
You've assumed that I beleive everything I read - that's absolutely and utterly incorrect
You've assumed I'm a "credit to the minority" again your words, and again that's just an opiniated assumption, who knows if thats right or wrong.

However I do agree with you regarding the output of Holyrood.

 

[sean_ork]

Then Sean as the erudite person you are supply me a fact that said that UK taxpayers did not give money back via government funding to Scotland, and that stat for 2012-13 is flase....that is all I ask

Google it, pull it out of a hat, get mystic Meg to furnish it.....just a recorded fact that states what I ask.is that too much to ask?

If you can then fair enough I will concede the fact

There's no need for me to use Google - there's also no need for me to deny that Scotland receives funding from the UK tax pot via a formula contrived by the likes of Thatcher and Major, I recall it accounts for about 83% of our budget - but its our earnings that we are being handed back, to attempt to disguise that is mischievous. I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

Now, could you answer my very simple question in post #60 (this is the third time I've asked) the one in which you implied that a Scot wanted to be English.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Malcolm, here's a question that Google can't help you answer, I note you've opted to avoid it previously so I'll ask it again.

What line of logic were you using when you posted the below, specifically the last sentence ?



Just for the avoidance of doubt, I have never met a Scot who wants to be English - do you really beleive such a person exists ?

I never had to google this Sean old son.

There is a famous quote from the British number one tennis player about England and supporting any team that plays against them. Now I have heard most of these barbs from relatives and such and it is generally said in good nature. But you know that there is an undertone to it.

What most Scots people can't understand is why beating england or even out doing England means so much to them, but the reverse means absolutely nothing to the English. We basicaly couldn't care and certainly I have never heard an Englishman say I support any team that is playing Scotland, because it dosen't matter to us.

This dislike if you like is born out of many things I guess, but I think a lot of it is jealousy, surely even the Scots can't still harbour a grudge and hatred against the English because of Edward longshanks..............or can you? If they do then you are sadder than I thought.

No I think a lot of it is jealousy, my humble opine of course, and so that was why I quoted, tongue in cheek what I did. As I said my beautiful wife is Scottish, my daughters are half Scottish, my grand parents are scottish and so are large sections of my family. They are wonderful people and I love them all to bits.........

..........but unfortunately like everywhere there are the brain washed, who in Scotland think that if only we could free ourseleves of the yoke of the English Brigadon would make a reappearance

 

[UNG]

I think it is fair to say that when it comes to being divisive the population of Scotland is one of the world leaders in the field

The independence debate north of the border became so acrimonious in some families it split them apart, in some workplaces talking about it was banned is this what a supposedly reasoned debate is about or is it a bunch of hardline chip on shoulder activists who have to get their own way at any cost

All these comments about reading the wrong media, researching and using information from the wrong sources is ongoing whinge by a lot of posters on all forums. If you are one of those who makes the claim then post your reliable sources of information so they can be verified instead of hiding behind that wall that deflects any ones points while declaring yours as the gospel of truth

It is quite obvious that both sides of the independence debate were economic with the facts and reality of what would be delivered but that is what politics is all about sell someone a dream and if it falls short or fails find someone or something to blame for it

In terms of the independence balance sheet, it has radically changed in the last 15 months or so since the vote that is assuming all the spending figures are included and accounted for and not just the "Holyrood handout" from Westminster

The fact is Salmond / Sturgeon utopia was doomed the moment he was using the Pound Sterling as a currency as it's value is set by ........let me think..... yes The Bank of England now how independent would that be

 

[malcolmsanford]

There's no need for me to use Google - there's also no need for me to deny that Scotland receives funding from the UK tax pot via a formula contrived by the likes of Thatcher and Major, I recall it accounts for about 83% of our budget - but its our earnings that we are being handed back, to attempt to disguise that is mischievous. I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

Now, could you answer my very simple question in post #60 (this is the third time I've asked) the one in which you implied that a Scot wanted to be English.

So you don't have a fact thought so...............

Sean your mate asked for a fact where do the UK tax papyer subsidise Scotland, that I have given.

So you agree the UK tax payer subsidise Scotland?

 

[sean_ork]

Thank you for your explanation Malcolm, it very clearly illustrates your line of thinking.

I'm not sure I've got the patience or the capacity to argue with you, your ability to conflate a modern day tennis players teaseing with royalty from 700 years ago? is simply .....

I'm open to suggestions for what word to end that sentence with - but thanks for making me laugh.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Thank you for your explanation Malcolm, it very clearly illustrates your line of thinking.

I'm not sure I've got the patience or the capacity to argue with you, your ability to conflate a modern day tennis players teaseing with royalty from 700 years ago? is simply .....

I'm open to suggestions for what word to end that sentence with - but thanks for making me laugh.

The pleasure is all mine..........It still fills me with joy that the English are still giving to our Scottish friends

 

[sean_ork]

The pleasure is all mine..........It still fills me with joy that the English are still giving to our Scottish friends

So maybe in this post I'm resorting to using your tactics, here's a few articles to get your teeth into - I've included a picture as a hint as to why your populist headline understanding is misguided.

Enough of the Scottish subsidy myth - Scotland pays its way in the Union
https://fullfact.org/scotland/
Leaders: Myth of Scotland as subsidy junkie of the UK is scotched - The Scotsman

 

[UNG]

You've assumed I'm loyal the the SNP - that's incorrect
You've assumed I'm a loyal supporter of "lady Nicola" (your words) - that's incorrect
You've assumed that I beleive everything I read - that's absolutely and utterly incorrect
You've assumed I'm a "credit to the minority" again your words, and again that's just an opiniated assumption, who knows if thats right or wrong.

However I do agree with you regarding the output of Holyrood.

So what other political party supports independence in Scotland or are you one of these people who sits on the fence spoiling for an argument decrying the sources of information used by others while supplying no credible sources of your own

There's no need for me to use Google - there's also no need for me to deny that Scotland receives funding from the UK tax pot via a formula contrived by the likes of Thatcher and Major, I recall it accounts for about 83% of our budget - but its our earnings that we are being handed back, to attempt to disguise that is mischievous. I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

You will have to refresh my memory as I don't recall the Thatcher / Major formula for funding administrative devolution or are you referring to the Barnett Formula devised by the Labour treasury minister called Joel Barnett

I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

So you have no facts to support your argument then, it appears that you are the one not researching the facts and are basing your argument that you read the facts below the headlines in your chosen media that may be biased to or biasing your view

All actual figures can be twisted in to a statistical analysis that can be presented in many different ways to suit every authors view point or aim that is a fact that you have to get behind to see the truth

I think you need to widen your reading and not limit it to the propaganda of the SNP

 

[malcolmsanford]

Granted in 2010-11 when those figures were published things were better, but my figures were more upto date, how far do you want to go back in time .........

Even the Scotsman cedes that the figures are not accurate

Not quite. Mr McWilliams has given the SNP some powerful material to serve a few aces. His figures purport to show not only that the public sector books balance in Scotland, but that Scotland, out of twelve nations and regions, has the fourth best set of public sector accounts in the UK.

These are, however, figures that are produced, not to present public sector accounts for an independent Scotland, but to show the intra-regional transfer of tax revenues within the UK and how these transfers support regional public spending. The figures cover the year 2010-11, for which there are as yet no official statistics on spending from either the Treasury or the Scottish Government.

Not a very good example Sean old son,but hey your getting there

 

[UNG]

So maybe in this post I'm resorting to using your tactics, here's a few articles to get your teeth into - I've included a picture as a hint as to why your populist headline understanding is misguided.

Enough of the Scottish subsidy myth - Scotland pays its way in the Union
https://fullfact.org/scotland/
Leaders: Myth of Scotland as subsidy junkie of the UK is scotched - The ScotsmanView attachment 31203

Is that really the best you can do, look how old these facts are can you find something more up to date to support your argument.

Are you sure the Scotsman is an unbiased source though

 

[sean_ork]

So what other political party supports independence in Scotland or are you one of these people who sits on the fence spoiling for an argument decrying the sources of information used by others while supplying no credible sources of your own

Actually no, a bit of independent thought is what I'm trying to encourage - someone previously commented that tax spending and the associated implications isnt rocket science - it certainly isn't, its far more complex than making things go bang.

I'm not going to attempt to Google up a killer "fact" to win the point, all I'm asking is for folks who don't have a full understanding, and those who form their opinions based on snapshot articles and headlines to do a little reading around the topic, in much the same manner as you would expect to do to be able to fully master your trade.

 

[sean_ork]

You will have to refresh my memory as I don't recall the Thatcher / Major formula for funding administrative devolution or are you referring to the Barnett Formula devised by the Labour treasury minister called Joel Barnet

again, I encourage you to do a little reading around the topic - you'll likely discover who realised what a mistake had been made and who was the government primarily responsible for its implementation.

 

[sean_ork]

I wonder why no one moans about the spending/head in Wales or NI ?

 

[UNG]

again, I encourage you to do a little reading around the topic - you'll likely discover who realised what a mistake had been made and who was the government primarily responsible for its implementation.

So you are the only person that has read up on this do me a favour wake up and smell the coffee. Yes I have read up on it and your response is just so typicial . You are being very selective in your replies and this IMO reflects badly on your argument

The biggest mistake by Westminster was not giving all the UK a vote on Scottish independence,