Joining a Union

Stewart Finneran · Sep 4, 2019

Hi All,

Just wondering what people's thoughts are of joining a Union whilst undergoing a first year Apprenticeship? I'm a mature student (37) and have secured an apprenticeship through JTL. They mentioned about joining a Union, and I was wondering if you think it's worth joining whilst undergoing an apprenticeship, and if so any recommendations on which one? Unite, EWB etc... I've not been part of a Union before as I'm ex military, so I've never had the need to join one. Any constructive comments is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Pete999 · Sep 4, 2019

Stewart Finneran said:
Hi All,

Just wondering what people's thoughts are of joining a Union whilst undergoing a first year Apprenticeship? I'm a mature student (37) and have secured an apprenticeship through JTL. They mentioned about joining a Union, and I was wondering if you think it's worth joining whilst undergoing an apprenticeship, and if so any recommendations on which one? Unite, EWB etc... I've not been part of a Union before as I'm ex military, so I've never had the need to join one. Any constructive comments is greatly appreciated. Thanks

As an ex TU Rep I would strongly advise a yes, which company are you serving your Apprenticeship with?

KennyKen · Sep 4, 2019

I would. See it as a voice for the lads. We have a lot of ex forces who work for our firm who don’t agree or understand it.

Pete999 · Sep 4, 2019

Stewart Finneran said:
Hi All,

Just wondering what people's thoughts are of joining a Union whilst undergoing a first year Apprenticeship? I'm a mature student (37) and have secured an apprenticeship through JTL. They mentioned about joining a Union, and I was wondering if you think it's worth joining whilst undergoing an apprenticeship, and if so any recommendations on which one? Unite, EWB etc... I've not been part of a Union before as I'm ex military, so I've never had the need to join one. Any constructive comments is greatly appreciated. Thanks

There should be some sort of TU representation at your place of work, if it's a multi trade workforce, find out from your colleagues which is the largest membership and apply to join, you don't have to become involved in Union/Management policies, just the greater the membership the more weight for any negotiations, I was a member of "PROSPECT" the union for professionals, if that's any help to you.

Risteard · Sep 4, 2019

Stewart Finneran said:
Hi All,

Just wondering what people's thoughts are of joining a Union whilst undergoing a first year Apprenticeship? I'm a mature student (37) and have secured an apprenticeship through JTL. They mentioned about joining a Union, and I was wondering if you think it's worth joining whilst undergoing an apprenticeship, and if so any recommendations on which one? Unite, EWB etc... I've not been part of a Union before as I'm ex military, so I've never had the need to join one. Any constructive comments is greatly appreciated. Thanks

You should join.

Unite will be the only one open to you.

Robson689 · Sep 4, 2019

Personal opinion here they're useless. I got wrongfully dismissed about a month before my apprenticeship ended and the same week that 2 new apprentices started and the union manager for the area knew the company director and took his side straight away and that's as far as their support went.

davesparks · Sep 4, 2019

Robson689 said:
Personal opinion here they're useless. I got wrongfully dismissed about a month before my apprenticeship ended and the same week that 2 new apprentices started and the union manager for the area knew the company director and took his side straight away and that's as far as their support went.

That doesn't mean that all unions are useless, just that the particular person is not doing their job properly.

Pete999 · Sep 4, 2019

Robson689 said:
Personal opinion here they're useless. I got wrongfully dismissed about a month before my apprenticeship ended and the same week that 2 new apprentices started and the union manager for the area knew the company director and took his side straight away and that's as far as their support went.

What was the reason given to you for dismissal, was it verbal or in writing ??? What Union was it?

Zerax · Sep 21, 2019

From my experience... modern Unions are largely political organisations. There's plenty of employment law in place to protect 'workers' these days.

Pete999 · Sep 21, 2019

Pete999 said:
What was the reason given to you for dismissal, was it verbal or in writing ??? What Union was it?

No answer to this question as yet!!!!

Robson689 · Sep 21, 2019

Pete999 said:
No answer to this question as yet!!!!

Sorry it was verbal dismissal, 7 days notice, previous weeks pay and outstanding holiday paid the week after. Union was Unite. I did have an appeal meeting with the directors but it arrived on a Friday and the meeting was for the following Monday but because of the way Unite was with me I was already on holiday when I got the letter...

Got a new job 2 weeks later and finished my apprenticeship only 6 months late

AJ3209 · Sep 21, 2019

Unite the union are recognised for collective bargaining etc so if you want a say in the industry, would advise going to them. Think they do a discounted rate for apprentices as well but not sure what that is now. Good to be a member and have the advice when needed

Deleted account · Sep 21, 2019

Robson689 said:
Sorry it was verbal dismissal, 7 days notice, previous weeks pay and outstanding holiday paid the week after. Union was Unite. I did have an appeal meeting with the directors but it arrived on a Friday and the meeting was for the following Monday but because of the way Unite was with me I was already on holiday when I got the letter...

Got a new job 2 weeks later and finished my apprenticeship only 6 months late

And the reason for the dismissal?

I am not a fan of unions for reasons I’ve gone into other threads, but if the union though the dismissal unfair they would have backed you to the hilt.

You should have stuck with it and appealed.

Pete999 · Sep 21, 2019

Robson689 said:
Sorry it was verbal dismissal, 7 days notice, previous weeks pay and outstanding holiday paid the week after. Union was Unite. I did have an appeal meeting with the directors but it arrived on a Friday and the meeting was for the following Monday but because of the way Unite was with me I was already on holiday when I got the letter...

Got a new job 2 weeks later and finished my apprenticeship only 6 months late

OK but what had you done or not done to illicit a verbal dismissal that's against all employment law, were you given a warning verbal and in writing, must be a reason for such action, a Union would have backed you all the way to the eventual tribunal.
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Paignton pete said:
And the reason for the dismissal?

I am not a fan of unions for reasons I’ve gone into other threads, but if the union though the dismissal unfair they would have backed you to the hilt.

You should have stuck with it and appealed.

Robson689 said:
Sorry it was verbal dismissal, 7 days notice, previous weeks pay and outstanding holiday paid the week after. Union was Unite. I did have an appeal meeting with the directors but it arrived on a Friday and the meeting was for the following Monday but because of the way Unite was with me I was already on holiday when I got the letter...

Got a new job 2 weeks later and finished my apprenticeship only 6 months late

What do you mean, "the way the Unite was with me"? don't understand if you weren't going away traveling to your Holiday, I would have attended the meeting, if you were just taking a break from work a day would neither be here or there, after all it was your job on the line.
Sorry if you couldn't be bothered about the meeting, then you only had yourself to blame, good you managed to find someone else to take you on as an Apprentice.

Deleted account · Sep 21, 2019

I’m really curious to know the reason, but it’s your prerogative not to inform us.
it would however make your comment more credible it you told us.

We may agree with you.

Robson689 · Sep 21, 2019

I was about an hour late the day after working 20 hours... I don't care for a job where I'm not respected and neither should anyone else.

Pete999 · Sep 21, 2019

Robson689 said:
I was about an hour late the day after working 20 hours... I don't care for a job where I'm not respected and neither should anyone else.

Working life can be hard mate. take it on the chin and move on.

KennyKen · Sep 21, 2019

After working 20 hours? Wow that company obviously never had a duty of care.

arch stanton62 · Sep 24, 2019

I'm also thinking of rejoining a union,with the pay deal running out end of 2020,I'm wondering if they are gonna try and sneak in another lvl of unskilled worker like they did last time.

andyb · Sep 25, 2019

Zerax said:
From my experience... modern Unions are largely political organisations. There's plenty of employment law in place to protect 'workers' these days.

What experiance is that Zerax?

PEG · Sep 25, 2019

Pete999 said:
Working life can be hard mate. take it on the chin and move on.

....the Miners didn't like this advice,in the eighties....

(Only joking,pal)

The Unions,in my experience,are one of those institutions,where in theory,there are no downsides.....like Communism...

The practical outcomes,are always contrary. Without doubt,some good comes out of these things,and then human nature takes over.

I am old enough to have seen the "club" system in operation...jobs-for-the-boys,applied by union officials,in the same way,the company men would do it...fit-ups,carve-ups....and how active,possibly well intentioned union officials,could be easily placated,by merely promoting them till they had a job they couldn't lose.

These days,there are more political reasons for joining,than practical ones...advice and discounts,aside.

Let's make a long post,longer,with two examples,one old,one new.

A great many years back,in one of my few PAYE jobs,i was told,nay,instructed,to join the union,and divvy up my monthly subscription....for the greater good (see "Hot Fuzz)

I needed some advice regarding pay rates,which were union set,on site,and i rang up the union headquarters. They told me i had to speak to my company rep,who was an alcoholic driver,with a particularly horrible disposition...i explained of my issues with this man,and was told "we will look in to it..."

I got no advice.....and he didn't get any more sober...

So,with a lot of whinging and whining....and even a warning of trouble from the wages clerk....i cancelled my subscription and that was me done.

Forward to last week...a good pal has been offered work at the airport,and part of the requirement,is for some safety cert,a days course,which is mandatory.

The course seems to be run by the unions,and if you join,by way of subscription,it was free and the day after...if not,40 odd quid,and 2 or 3 weeks later.....

Anywho,i can barely contain my excitement and wonder,over the anticipation of only having to work a 32 hour week....really? come on,Len...i spend longer than that,typing boring posts...