15 year old poppy seller had face burnt in attack

[Barry White]

I always buy a poppy its my way of saying thanks to people who give there lives (or part of) so we can be free.then heard of this incident where a 15 year old cadet was attacked with a flaming aerosol.

see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29870960

Hope they catch him:bobby:

 

[trev]

A disgraceful event. Whoever did this needs to feel the full weight of the law crashing down around his shoulders.

 

[tazz]

Other 14 year old cadet has been attacked in Derby....both have been linked to Asian males...one 38 year old has been arrested in Manchester

 

[Pete999]

diabolical act on inocent teenagers, when they catch these animals, the book should be thrown at them, what has this world become?

 

[UNG]

diabolical act on inocent teenagers, when they catch these animals, the book should be thrown at them, what has this world become?

I don't think a book thrown at them is enough I think these people need some of their own medicine

 

[Pete999]

I don't think a book thrown at them is enough I think these people need some of their own medicine

You're probably right mate with all these PC judges, and do gooders if they caught the burgers they would probably get community service and a course on the dangers of playing with fire, but can we take the law into our own hands?

 

[Bobster]

The old phrase 'An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind' springs to mind here.

However I'd be quite happy with the scum committing these crimes having there teeth kicked in with a pair of heavy steel toed boots.

 

[trev]

Come off it guys, you can't seriously be advocating vigilante justice here can you?
The "PC judges" are bound to apply and uphold the law as it stands, not what anyone would like it to be, and there are good reasons for that.
Vigilante justice is no justice at all.

 

[Engineer54]

Come off it guys, you can't seriously be advocating vigilante justice here can you? The "PC judges" are bound to apply and uphold the law as it stands, not what anyone would like it to be, and there are good reasons for that. Vigilante justice is no justice at all.

Unfortunately the Law is an ---, and justice is rarely if ever seen. When you are dealing with people that have absolutely no conscience about dealing out physical harm to anyone that happens to catch their eye, the soft option NEVER works. I'm afraid these sort of people only respond to the same physical harm/pain they like dishing out!!

 

[trev]

A couple of people appeared to advocate taking the law into their own hands and applying a similar kind of punishment. Now just suppose the vigilante mob that would have undoubtedly formed (were it allowed) had gotten their hands on someone who answered the description of the perpetrator of this disgusting act and administered a severe kicking.
It then turns out that they'd gotten the wrong man.
Who would then administer the retribution beatings to the vigilante mob?
Also, suppose someone was implicated as being a member of this mob and received the retribution beating but then turned out to have a cast iron alibi?
Where does it stop?
My whole point is that vigilante justice cannot work and can never be allowed.
Apparently an arrest has been made in Manchester so a motive, if there is one, will become apparent and the criminal will be punished according to law if found guilty by a properly convened court.

 

[dave274]

if they are foreigners then get them deported, oh I forgot the government wont do that its just something they promise before elections.

 

[trev]

If the perpetrator is foreign then of course he should be deported, we don't know that yet though.

 

[Pete999]

A couple of people appeared to advocate taking the law into their own hands and applying a similar kind of punishment. Now just suppose the vigilante mob that would have undoubtedly formed (were it allowed) had gotten their hands on someone who answered the description of the perpetrator of this disgusting act and administered a severe kicking.
It then turns out that they'd gotten the wrong man.
Who would then administer the retribution beatings to the vigilante mob?
Also, suppose someone was implicated as being a member of this mob and received the retribution beating but then turned out to have a cast iron alibi?
Where does it stop?
My whole point is that vigilante justice cannot work and can never be allowed.
Apparently an arrest has been made in Manchester so a motive, if there is one, will become apparent and the criminal will be punished according to law if found guilty by a properly convened court.

Hi Trev, can I point out that although it would be theoretically a good thing for the perps to receive an eye for an eye in cases like this, I actually asked the question "can we take the law into our hands" Eng 54 is, sadly correct the law is an ---, mob rule is never going to work, it's stupid, dangerous. I have actually worked where mobs rule, it's not a pretty sight, and not the right way, unfortunately the gut reaction of normally model citizens comes to the fore front when crimes like this are committed, the laws and those who administer it needs an overhaul. A smack on the wrist is downright abysmal, perhaps a case fore capital punishment? I'm not advocating it, just asking the question, either way lets hope if and when these thugs are apprehended the law sees fit to punish them severely, I can see a debate taking place amongst the members.

 

[trev]

Pete I can understand the eye for an eye knee jerk reaction mate, I dare say if it were one of my own I'd be feeling it myself but thankfully I've never been put in that situation.
Although I agree that a smack on the wrist is not enough I have to say that corporal and capital punishments do not work though, this has been proven time and again throughout history. For example, Guy Fawkes knew he risked a particularly grisly death if he were caught but he and his co conspirators still went ahead with their plot to blow up parliament and the king so where was the deterrent value of hanging, drawing and quartering?
"Mad" Frankie Fraser was regularly tied to an A frame and flogged with the birch while he was in prison, he still broke the rules on a regular basis in there.

 

[Pete999]

Pete I can understand the eye for an eye knee jerk reaction mate, I dare say if it were one of my own I'd be feeling it myself but thankfully I've never been put in that situation.
Although I agree that a smack on the wrist is not enough I have to say that corporal and capital punishments do not work though, this has been proven time and again throughout history. For example, Guy Fawkes knew he risked a particularly grisly death if he were caught but he and his co conspirators still went ahead with their plot to blow up parliament and the king so where was the deterrent value of hanging, drawing and quartering?

I kind of agree with you trev, taking life, any life is not to be sniffed at, your analogy about Guy Fawkes is pretty good seeing as bonfire night is only a few days away, yet we still celebrate it don't we? The kind of people that committed these crimes are on the same scale as those monsters who hacked that poor squaddie to death and they are languishing in some nick somewhere being fed and clothed by the likes of me and you, I don't know these poor lads who were innocently selling poppies, neither did I know the poor soldier who was hacked to death, but I can see the anguish in his poor family after it happened, the folk that do this thing aren't normal, they aren't misguided they are evil, all done in the name of religion, Ive said my piece, these are my thoughts. Perhaps you are right capital punishment may be the wrong option, one thing for sure we need our laws, our prisons and judiciary overhauled and brought up to date, and in line with the real world, a bit like the regulations governing our trade, perhaps that's making light of what has happened, it's not meant to.

 

[trev]

For me, there have been too many mistakes made to justify a return to the death penalty. The possibility of one miscarriage of justice makes it an unviable proposition, no doubt people will start to spout off about DNA evidence but to refute that I'm going to bring up a case from the US about 2 months ago, a guy had been convicted of murder on DNA evidence and had spent time on death row. Eventually new evidence came to light that exonerated him, had he been in the UK at the time of the death penalty he'd have been hanged within a month of the sentence being handed down.
We don't actually celebrate Guy Fawkes and his actions, we celebrate him being caught. God save the king and all that. Why do you think he is burnt in effigy every year? It's a re enactment (although a slightly sanitised version) of his death.
I suppose it was only a matter of time before Lee Rigby was brought up and I haven't seen any proof yet that the perpetrator of the act against the army cadet was on the same scale, the attacker was described as smelling of alcohol for starters but Lee Rigby's killers wanted martyrdom, that's why they hung around. They expected the police to kill them so they'd get their 72 virgins (imagine if it were 72 Susan Boyles lol).
I don't think it's the judiciary that needs to be overhauled mate, they act within the law and sentencing guidelines given to them by politicians however the system does appear to be completely unfit for purpose. Maybe we should take a good hard look at how things are done in certain Scandanavian countries where the emphasis is on rehabilitation rather than punishment because they, statistically, have a far lesser rate of recidivism than we do. I have to say though that for some crimes I think a life sentence should mean exactly that.

 

[Slowhand]

The man was as they say " Going Prepared ". He had a lighter and aerosol and chose to spray a young man with fire.
Never mind what you say about being a vigilante, if you'd have seen it happen would you have walked away or visited violence upon him?

 

[Pete999]

For me, there have been too many mistakes made to justify a return to the death penalty. The possibility of one miscarriage of justice makes it an unviable proposition, no doubt people will start to spout off about DNA evidence but to refute that I'm going to bring up a case from the US about 2 months ago, a guy had been convicted of murder on DNA evidence and had spent time on death row. Eventually new evidence came to light that exonerated him, had he been in the UK at the time of the death penalty he'd have been hanged within a month of the sentence being handed down.
We don't actually celebrate Guy Fawkes and his actions, we celebrate him being caught. God save the king and all that. Why do you think he is burnt in effigy every year? It's a re enactment (although a slightly sanitised version) of his death.
I suppose it was only a matter of time before Lee Rigby was brought up and I haven't seen any proof yet that the perpetrator of the act against the army cadet was on the same scale, the attacker was described as smelling of alcohol for starters but Lee Rigby's killers wanted martyrdom, that's why they hung around. They expected the police to kill them so they'd get their 72 virgins (imagine if it were 72 Susan Boyles lol).
I don't think it's the judiciary that needs to be overhauled mate, they act within the law and sentencing guidelines given to them by politicians however the system does appear to be completely unfit for purpose. Maybe we should take a good hard look at how things are done in certain Scandanavian countries where the emphasis is on rehabilitation rather than punishment because they, statistically, have a far lesser rate of recidivism than we do. I have to say though that for some crimes I think a life sentence should mean exactly that.

Here Here Trev end of debate???

 

[trev]

The man was as they say " Going Prepared ". He had a lighter and aerosol and chose to spray a young man with fire.
Never mind what you say about being a vigilante, if you'd have seen it happen would you have walked away or visited violence upon him?

Would I have stopped the attack? Yes I'd have done everything in my power to. Would I have administered a retribution beating? No, I'd have used as much reasonable force as I needed to and as the law allows.

 

[Slowhand]

Would I have stopped the attack? Yes I'd have done everything in my power to. Would I have administered a retribution beating? No, I'd have used as much reasonable force as I needed to and as the law allows.

I admire you for that Trev, you have far more self restraint than I can rely on in myself.