Any tips when quoting for CU upgrades

[aliensbrains]

Quoting for a CU upgrade soon and it's the first time I've actually quoted one myself.

Any tips on how best to approach it? I get the principle of materials + time, but is there another stuff to watch out for that might not be obvious. Things that may have tripped (no pun intended) people up in the past that I might also miss.

Also I'll be testing before doing the upgrade so global IR L+N to E, Ze & Zs, confirming end to ends & R2 tests, borrowed neutral etc. Clearly can't realistically doing this on first visit for quote. I appreciate all jobs are different but do you do any bacic Zs etc. at the quoting stage? Or pre-empt the customer that the first part of the job is testing the installation's suitability for a new RCBO/SPD board, and that might affect the end price.

All help appreciated - thanks!

 

[richy3333]

Make sure you visit site first. Have the cover off the existing CU and consider how the existing circuit cables will get into the new CU - do you need trunking, glands etc. Is earthing and bonding OK. I'd not be testing at this stage. Potentially allow for a mains tails gland, new tails, Henleys, isolator switch etc? Make sure the quote is subject to prior testing and if that highlights issues there might be extra costs or at least discussions to have with the customer.

If you get the job go back and do the testing you mentioned before changing the CU - the amount of posts on here where people have issues after the event because they don't test beforehand.

Manage customers expectations. Make sure they understand they'll have no power. Over estimate the time the power will be out, then if you finish early you are a hero! I encourage my customers to go out for the day if I can. Then I have no disturbances and can just crack on with the job without being disturbed.

 

[aliensbrains]

Make sure you visit site first. Have the cover off the existing CU and consider how the existing circuit cables will get into the new CU - do you need trunking, glands etc. Is earthing and bonding OK. I'd not be testing at this stage. Potentially allow for a mains tails gland, new tails, Henleys, isolator switch etc? Make sure the quote is subject to prior testing and if that highlights issues there might be extra costs or at least discussions to have with the customer.

If you get the job go back and do the testing you mentioned before changing the CU - the amount of posts on here where people have issues after the event because they don't test beforehand.

Manage customers expectations. Make sure they understand they'll have no power. Over estimate the time the power will be out, then if you finish early you are a hero! I encourage my customers to go out for the day if I can. Then I have no disturbances and can just crack on with the job without being disturbed.

Great advice, much appreciated.

 

[LukeD]

Great advice, much appreciated.

Never ever quote until you know exactly what you are quoting for .And use what ever brand board you like to work on

 

[aliensbrains]

Totally agree. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems!
I've actually just been to look at this job and this is the main cut out situation.

Customer wants an EV charger after the CU upgrade too.

 

[Jock from the north]

Quoting for a CU upgrade soon and it's the first time I've actually quoted one myself.

Any tips on how best to approach it? I get the principle of materials + time, but is there another stuff to watch out for that might not be obvious. Things that may have tripped (no pun intended) people up in the past that I might also miss.

Also I'll be testing before doing the upgrade so global IR L+N to E, Ze & Zs, confirming end to ends & R2 tests, borrowed neutral etc. Clearly can't realistically doing this on first visit for quote. I appreciate all jobs are different but do you do any bacic Zs etc. at the quoting stage? Or pre-empt the customer that the first part of the job is testing the installation's suitability for a new RCBO/SPD board, and that might affect the end price.

All help appreciated - thanks!

Isolating the existing consumer unit may be a consideration if there is no dno/energy company double pole isolator .

Quoting for a CU upgrade soon and it's the first time I've actually quoted one myself.

Any tips on how best to approach it? I get the principle of materials + time, but is there another stuff to watch out for that might not be obvious. Things that may have tripped (no pun intended) people up in the past that I might also miss.

Also I'll be testing before doing the upgrade so global IR L+N to E, Ze & Zs, confirming end to ends & R2 tests, borrowed neutral etc. Clearly can't realistically doing this on first visit for quote. I appreciate all jobs are different but do you do any bacic Zs etc. at the quoting stage? Or pre-empt the customer that the first part of the job is testing the installation's suitability for a new RCBO/SPD board, and that might affect the end price.

All help appreciated - thanks!

 

[Jock from the north]

Quoting for a CU upgrade soon and it's the first time I've actually quoted one myself.

Any tips on how best to approach it? I get the principle of materials + time, but is there another stuff to watch out for that might not be obvious. Things that may have tripped (no pun intended) people up in the past that I might also miss.

Also I'll be testing before doing the upgrade so global IR L+N to E, Ze & Zs, confirming end to ends & R2 tests, borrowed neutral etc. Clearly can't realistically doing this on first visit for quote. I appreciate all jobs are different but do you do any bacic Zs etc. at the quoting stage? Or pre-empt the customer that the first part of the job is testing the installation's suitability for a new RCBO/SPD board, and that might affect the end price.

All help appreciated - thanks!

It's always the last thing that springs to mind!

 

[Jock from the north]

Quoting for a CU upgrade soon and it's the first time I've actually quoted one myself.

Any tips on how best to approach it? I get the principle of materials + time, but is there another stuff to watch out for that might not be obvious. Things that may have tripped (no pun intended) people up in the past that I might also miss.

Also I'll be testing before doing the upgrade so global IR L+N to E, Ze & Zs, confirming end to ends & R2 tests, borrowed neutral etc. Clearly can't realistically doing this on first visit for quote. I appreciate all jobs are different but do you do any bacic Zs etc. at the quoting stage? Or pre-empt the customer that the first part of the job is testing the installation's suitability for a new RCBO/SPD board, and that might affect the end price.

All help appreciated - thanks!

Also try build a good working relationship with customer and make them understand that just because there oven worked before on an mcb with no rcd etc there's no guarantee it won't trip the first time the grill goes on .the famous "well its always worked before " can be hard to explain to some customers .there's only so much you can do ,you never wired the property and you don't have x ray vision .how far do you go do you start doing in service inspections on appliances .

 

[Jock from the north]

Totally agree. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems!
I've actually just been to look at this job and this is the main cut out situation.

Customer wants an EV charger after the CU upgrade too.

View attachment 119336

It's not easy to see from photo but is the left hand cut out the neutral. Or a second phase if it is the neutral and is fused I belive the dno would have to get directly involved to upgrade it .but like I say I can't see where tails are going .before my time I'm afraid.hopefully someone else on the forum can recognise them.i dare say there full of asbestos as well .maybe there defunct do you have more photos .thanks

 

[westward10]

That cutout is probably pre 1960s and almost certainly has a fused neutral, a neutral link would not be available. It needs reporting to the DNO.

 

[Jock from the north]

That cutout is probably pre 1960s and almost certainly has a fused neutral, a neutral link would not be available. It needs reporting to the DNO.

Looking at the dnos website or ena could it be a biscuit tin cutout and has a maximum rewirebale fuse wire of 30 amps .

 

[westward10]

Looking at the dnos website or ena could it be a biscuit tin cutout

Looking at the dnos website or ena could it be a biscuit tin cutout and has a maximum rewirebale fuse wire of 30 amps .

I wouldn't call it "biscuit tin" they got their moniker because they resembled biscuit tins.

 

[Jock from the north]

Quoting for a CU upgrade soon and it's the first time I've actually quoted one myself.

Any tips on how best to approach it? I get the principle of materials + time, but is there another stuff to watch out for that might not be obvious. Things that may have tripped (no pun intended) people up in the past that I might also miss.

Also I'll be testing before doing the upgrade so global IR L+N to E, Ze & Zs, confirming end to ends & R2 tests, borrowed neutral etc. Clearly can't realistically doing this on first visit for quote. I appreciate all jobs are different but do you do any bacic Zs etc. at the quoting stage? Or pre-empt the customer that the first part of the job is testing the installation's suitability for a new RCBO/SPD board, and that might affect the end price.

All help appreciated - thanks!

Hi before going any further with quote for consumer unit its def worth getting the customer to upgrade the service head ,if that is the cut outs in your photo .they will do it for free I'd imagine but dont hold me to it.if the neutral cut out is fused looking at there website it's within 21 days .obviously they have left a dangerous situation prob missed over the years.i guess it's a rural area .

 

[aliensbrains]

Yeah from what I've read, I believe it's most likely 30A Line and either a fused or bridged neutral. Either way DNO needs to come out and that's what I've advised initially. There's no way I'm touching them.

I've asked for an isolator too.

What's the most likely course of action from the DNO do you think? Replace the whole lot with iso and PME or do I need to get involved to specifically request that?

Obviously 30A is no good for the EV installation either so the customer really needs this sorting.

 

[aliensbrains]

Hi before going any further with quote for consumer unit its def worth getting the customer to upgrade the service head ,if that is the cut outs in your photo .they will do it for free I'd imagine but dont hold me to it.if the neutral cut out is fused looking at there website it's within 21 days .obviously they have left a dangerous situation prob missed over the years.i guess it's a rural area .

It's actually an Edwardian terrace in an urban area.

 

[Jock from the north]

Yeah from what I've read, I believe it's most likely 30A Line and either a fused or bridged neutral. Either way DNO needs to come out and that's what I've advised initially. There's no way I'm touching them.

I've asked for an isolator too.

What's the most likely course of action from the DNO do you think? Replace the whole lot with iso and PME or do I need to get involved to specifically request that?

Obviously 30A is no good for the EV installation either so the customer really needs this sorting.

It seems if it is a fused neutral on main cut out they have a directive from hse to replace it within 21 days .whether that means a new 100 amp pme supply I'm not sure .they will soon tell you

 

[Jock from the north]

It's actually an Edwardian terrace in an urban area.

I've never been to Newcastle under Lyme, seen the signs on way to alton towers

 

[Jock from the north]

It's actually an Edwardian terrace in an urban area.

I don't think you will have to get involved but if the customer needs the issue explained over the phone to begin with then you would be best placed to do that.once dno is on site they will know what to do

 

[Jock from the north]

Quoting for a CU upgrade soon and it's the first time I've actually quoted one myself.

Any tips on how best to approach it? I get the principle of materials + time, but is there another stuff to watch out for that might not be obvious. Things that may have tripped (no pun intended) people up in the past that I might also miss.

Also I'll be testing before doing the upgrade so global IR L+N to E, Ze & Zs, confirming end to ends & R2 tests, borrowed neutral etc. Clearly can't realistically doing this on first visit for quote. I appreciate all jobs are different but do you do any bacic Zs etc. at the quoting stage? Or pre-empt the customer that the first part of the job is testing the installation's suitability for a new RCBO/SPD board, and that might affect the end price.

All help appreciated - thanks!

Also leave a note or get the customer to request the metre guy to actually fit an isolator ,most of the time there flying thru there day and moan cos it holds them up for 10 mins..last guy I asked moaned like hell saying there not obliged to fit one .don't know if customer got charged or not

 

[Hakuhou]

Totally agree. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems!
I've actually just been to look at this job and this is the main cut out situation.

Customer wants an EV charger after the CU upgrade too.

View attachment 119336

From my revision that’s an example of a fused neutral cast iron (« coffin ») DNO cutout.
Which should be reported to the DNO for replacement, from what I understand the DNO will do this on an urgent basis.
One should also get an isolator switch installed at the same time by the DNO.

 

[Tom256]

Yes fused neutral. Good spot.

 

[Jock from the north]

Yes fused neutral. Good spot.

I think that may have been established earlier in post .

 

[Bluetit]

Also leave a note or get the customer to request the metre guy to actually fit an isolator ,most of the time there flying thru there day and moan cos it holds them up for 10 mins..last guy I asked moaned like hell saying there not obliged to fit one .don't know if customer got charged or not

Last DNO interaction I had was a relocation. They just banged in a new 80A 1361 head in and said the rest was up to me or the energy supplier, no obligation to fit an iso. The work was subbed though rather than being the DNO themselves, client said when they previously spoke with the DNO directly they said they would fit an iso.
The subbies did accidentally leave some nice DNO meter seals though, which was awfully careless of them.

Personally I have a tiered fixed price for a CU swap based on # of ways. This typically works for me, if I am fitting an iso the cost of that goes on top. I will always talk it all through with the customer first, and definitely visit the property rather than going off photos alone. I also explain my price includes some pre-lim testing, the results of which may impact the job, and result in additional works to actually facilitate the CU change, typically I try and lay this out for them using a borrowed neutral as an example. I include this in the terms at the bottom of my quote too.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think that may have been established earlier in post .

Well if you are going to be pedantic about it, I think you mean "earlier in this thread" even if you did mean thread and referenced post, you forgot the preposition.

 

[Jock from the north]

Well if you are going to be pedantic about it, I think you mean "earlier in this thread" even if you did mean thread and referenced post, you forgot the preposition.

Yes I did mean that and was being pedantic.i once dared to tell my journeyman he was being pedantic because I threw away the cardboard lid from a box of screws .didn't go down well ,he made me look for it the rest of the afternoon even though I new it was crumbled up in the bin .